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[00:12]<gndyvx>we have tons of ONS
[00:12]<gzrnnd->you only *think* you know optical with Cisco ONS stuff. they make it so easy it's obscene
[00:12]<dffnw>though I doubt we'll use 40gbps
[00:12]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>GraNNy-: I despise nortel.
[00:13]<gzrnnd->loather: i'm 90% positive i'm doing a presentation at NANOG this october for TL1 and how to get around nortel
[00:13]<o2snssnm>you guyz think I should go on and learn CCNP after my CCNA exam next month, or try to get a job with only CCNA?
[00:14]<gndyvx>GraNNy-: congrats
[00:14]<gndyvx>Obsessed: do you like flipping burgers?
[00:14]<dffnw>its hard to get a job with only a ccna I think, without experience at least
[00:14]<gzrnnd->getting around nortel or the other PoS tdm/sonet providers who don't usually do IP on their boxes
[00:14]<o2snssnm>flipping burgers wtf.. :o
[00:14]<bsdrgdjg>lol
[00:14]<bsdrgdjg>nemith
[00:14]<gndyvx>Obsessed: cauase thats what your ccna can get you
[00:14]<bsdrgdjg>yeah, burger flipping is what the ccna is for
[00:15]<o2snssnm>hah
[00:15]<dffnw>Im avoiding certs until someone really wants me to get one
[00:15]<o2snssnm>ok I get it ;)
[00:15]<gzrnnd->obsessed: you need to know people to get a job, not a ccna. the only thing the ccna does is help you get your foot in the door maybe.
[00:15]<o2snssnm>well I have to start somewhere
[00:15]<o2snssnm>how can I meet people :p
[00:15]<gzrnnd->anytime someone asks me about certs, i point blank say,"I have a four year degree, exactly what does a ccna add for that kind of education?"
[00:15]<gndyvx>a) nothing beats experiance b) it is hard to get a networking job with just a CCNA. c) On the flip side it is better to get your CCNP after having real world experiance
[00:16]<o2snssnm>yes but I need that first job
[00:16]<fmnwvnz>hehe, 4 year degree doesn't say much these days
[00:16]<gzrnnd->obsessed: hello NOCling!
[00:16]<bsdrgdjg>well ccna would be a suggested step towards ccnp... so despite its uselessness, its kind of needed if you plan on following any sort of cisco cert path
[00:16]<o2snssnm>wth is NOCling
[00:16]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>GraNNy-: I wonder if I can get into NANOG this year.
[00:16]<gndyvx>people are always looking for NOC monkeys
[00:16]<gzrnnd->ldexter: sure, if you are getting a degree in English lit
[00:16]<o2snssnm>what is NOC
[00:16]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>i'd really like to go.
[00:16]<gzrnnd->loather: all you have to do is pay the 350 and get hotel and plane reservations
[00:16]<bsdrgdjg>yeah, degrees arent worth much anymore
[00:16]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>Obsessed: Network Operations Center -- a room with a lot of screens
[00:16]<gndyvx>to archive scripts, log into routers with little to no privilegs to do basic troubleshooting and provisioning
[00:17]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>GraNNy-: Well, I meant go for free. Convince the job to pay for me to go.
[00:17]<o2snssnm>ic
[00:17]<gndyvx>there were some good discussion pdf's from nanog this year
[00:17]<gndyvx>i read on the list
[00:17]<gndyvx>GraNNy-: which SP you work for?
[00:17]<fmnwvnz>loather: i'm sure they can write that off as a business expense
[00:17]<gzrnnd->loather: do a write up of what presentations have been done before and how they would have helped/enhanced your work
[00:17]<gndyvx>if you don't mind me asking
[00:18]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>ldexter: yeah, it's convincing them that it's in their best interest to send me, though.
[00:18]<gzrnnd->nemith: I did work for UU when it was actually UU, AboveNet, Akamai, enterpirse companies mumble mumble, Switch and Data, Memphis Networx.
[00:18]<dffnw>at large ISPs etc, are all designs essentially templates, is there any real work to do for the majority of engineers?
[00:18]<fmnwvnz>sometimes its best not to ask at all
[00:18]<o2snssnm>guess I'll start ccnp while I'm looking for a job for a first experience then
[00:18]<gndyvx>GraNNy-: impressive
[00:18]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>well, i just started. Once i get to know my boss, I'll see about convincing him to send me to NANOG.
[00:18]<gndyvx><-- currently enterprise hell
[00:18]<fmnwvnz>ah
[00:18]<fmnwvnz>no longer at the other place?
[00:19]<gndyvx>well I work for IT at a SP
[00:19]<bsdrgdjg><-- university campus :D
[00:19]<gndyvx>which is still enterprise hell
[00:19]<dffnw>university here too
[00:19]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>ldexter: nah, i quit IBM nearly a month ago and took this position. I work for a biotech company as their UNIX guy now.
[00:19]<dffnw>beaurocratic hell
[00:19]<gzrnnd->nemith: my sympathies.
[00:19]<fmnwvnz>awesome
[00:19]<gndyvx>actually it's worse, since the network users think they know more than you (and a handful of them do)
[00:19]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>universities are a serious bureaucratic nightmare with all the red tape :(
[00:19]<gzrnnd->we usually made fun the IT guys in SP
[00:20]<gndyvx>oh yeah
[00:20]<gzrnnd->you guys get a bad rap
[00:20]<gzrnnd->it's unfortunate
[00:20]<gndyvx>expecially the IT network
[00:20]<fmnwvnz>everyone gets a bad rap
[00:20]<gzrnnd->nemith: i've seen some horiffic IT networks though :)
[00:20]<gndyvx>and our budget is small
[00:20]<dffnw>its always our fault when anything breaks
[00:20]<gndyvx>this one is up there... and there is little i can do about it
[00:20]<gndyvx>i mean bad network
[00:21]<fncu>bad little network
[00:21]<gzrnnd->"wait wait...you guys are using bgp and statics for the igp? omgwtfbbq"
[00:21]<gndyvx>heh
[00:21]<gzrnnd->s/bgp/bgp for the egp
[00:22]<dffnw>our network used to be funded by individual departments, so some were on nice new 3750s and others were still on synoptic hubs
[00:22]<gndyvx>GraNNy-: well not that bad
[00:22]<sdac2jd>whats the quickest way to pull Logs off a 7206
[00:22]<bsdrgdjg>loather: no red tape at our university
[00:22]<gndyvx>but it is designed via the "plug it in and if it works leave it" notion
[00:22]<gzrnnd->"wait, we only have 20 routers total and you want to use CONFEDS for the network? <runs screaming>"
[00:22]<gndyvx>not much foresight
[00:22]<fmnwvnz>sickboy: export to syslog
[00:22]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>BSDaemon: you got lucky then
[00:22]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>many universities have way too much
[00:22]<gndyvx>sickboy: show logging?
[00:23]<gndyvx>sickboy: best way is to use a syslog server and log to it
[00:23]<bsdrgdjg>yah, i really like where i work
[00:23]<gzrnnd->nemith: that's been my experience with IT departments :(
[00:23]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>that's always a plus. Really justifies the move down from canada :D
[00:23]<gzrnnd->working with and in them
[00:23]<vcul>a BS say in CS or EE can really be helpful in many situations
[00:23]<bsdrgdjg>loather i mean, hell... im in houston right now solely because i said "hey, can i do some wireless training?" "sure, sign up and make hotel reservations"
[00:24]<fjzvxnz-wjzc>that's cool.
[00:24]<gzrnnd->tkup: if only for the programming portion in CS for the opensource apps you want to run

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