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[02:52]<vynvyvq>cool
[02:52]<vynvyvq>thanks
[02:53]<vynvyvq>not necessarily cool but at least the new book i got will be applicable
[02:53]<vynvyvq>"effective java"
[03:10]<kdzygcjdr>hey i got a question. Can I use CLR to do gaming programming?
[03:11]<zgzzcydjvgev>i think you know the answer to that already
[03:11]<kdzygcjdr>if i did i wouldn't be asking ;)
[03:12]<zgzzcydjvgev>the short answer is yes, the long(er) answer is google.com
[03:12]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: you know the penalty for games written in .NET... INSTANT DEATH
[03:12]<nvzzfzsv>and the 100% clueless answer is try Kids Programming Lanugage(KPL)
[03:12]<zgzzcydjvgev>lol
[03:13]<kjr>ESR and Stallman paradrop over your house under cover of darkness (HALO), and slaughter your entire family with papercuts
[03:13]<kjr>you can tell because they leave CATB as their calling-card...
[03:13]<rxrcr>ms is supposedly going to offer (or maybe does already) .net2.0 + managed directx execution on Xbox
[03:13]<kdzygcjdr>well see the problem is I can't find a good gui for windows except CLR that is in native windows programming. And also down the line I want to learn gaming programming and thats why I was asking
[03:14]<kjr>KyrinComa: the trick to programming, is learning how to program... not learning a language
[03:14]<zgzzcydjvgev>yep
[03:14]<zgzzcydjvgev>programming is like 70% logic, 20% math, and 10% language
[03:15]<cfudsd>yep.. there are a number of "key mindset" breakthroughs on the path to becomnig a good coder.. a variety of languages can give you that
[03:15]<cfudsd>however time is limited so its good to learn a language that you are goin to get a good return on time investment in
[03:15]<zgzzcydjvgev>like C#
[03:15]<kdzygcjdr>i already know C++ to a certain point and I want to start doing Window programming in gui not console
[03:15]<vynvyvq>like eiffel
[03:15]<kjr>programmer damnit
[03:15]<kjr>you're not fucking encoding things
[03:16]<kdzygcjdr>ok programer
[03:16]<vynvyvq>no!
[03:16]<vynvyvq>with 2 m's
[03:16]<cfudsd>coder is easier :)
[03:17]<vynvyvq>klumsy: you should change your name to lazy
[03:17]<kdzygcjdr>yeah all the books I found on for windows is just in C not C++ or C#
[03:18]<zgzzcydjvgev>books suck
[03:18]<zgzzcydjvgev>msdn is your friend
[03:18]<cfudsd>maybe efficent rather than lazy.. but actually to me i look at the culture sourounding those words, and i feel in general coder refers to somebody who has a greater technical ability than a programmer
[03:18]<kjr>klumsy: you sure got THAT one backwards
[03:18]<zgzzcydjvgev>no hes right
[03:19]<kjr>if "coders" don't even know what exactly they're doing, how can you possibly believe they posess skills?
[03:19]<kjr>they're generally not encoding things
[03:19]<zgzzcydjvgev>programmer is like "engineer" it just describes what you do...not that you really know how to do it
[03:19]<drdyrrr>Kog, not encoding things is my pet hate for lousy coders
[03:19]<cfudsd>programmer often just refers to like somebody who does VB6 business stuff, while a coder has the associations of somebody who writes optomised graphics codecs in MMX assembler, or various game parts etc
[03:19]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: whereas "coder" refers to someone that encodes things
[03:19]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: equally imprecise
[03:19]<zgzzcydjvgev>Kog - only if your a language nazi
[03:20]<drdyrrr>Somebody who is a Software Engineer should have a better idea
[03:20]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: no, I'm just following your definition
[03:20]<drdyrrr>strings are your enemy
[03:20]<cfudsd>what about software architect
[03:20]<drdyrrr>more of a design/co-ord role imho
[03:20]<cfudsd>i have a variety of official titles in my job, but imformally, i'm a coder
[03:20]<zgzzcydjvgev>"coder" has nothing to do with "encoder"
[03:20]<kjr>klumsy: anyone who uses the word "enterprise" or the "enterprise" set of words is probably bogus too
[03:20]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: sure it does
[03:20]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: the term coder denotes that you are one that encodes
[03:20]<drdyrrr>damn thats the whole crew of the ncc-1701 then
[03:21]<zgzzcydjvgev>hey
[03:21]<zgzzcydjvgev>i got an idea
[03:21]<kjr>damieng: what's the ncc-1701? some sort of boat?
[03:21]<kjr>oh no wait
[03:21]<zgzzcydjvgev>lets debate an equally stupid topic: "cracker" vs "hacker"
[03:21]<kjr>that's a startrek reference isn't it
[03:21]<drdyrrr>err. the star ship enterprise....
[03:21]<drdyrrr>Kog, call yourself a programmer!
[03:21]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: they're only stupid to people who are clueless
[03:21]<kjr>damieng: no, I call myself a computer scientist
[03:21]<mupmvz>and now i thought cracker was a honkey
[03:21]<zgzzcydjvgev>...
[03:21]<drdyrrr>god damn. it's one thing not encoding output streams but hell not knowing what the ncc-1701 is....
[03:21]<cfudsd>on my son's birth certificate, the fathers's job is specified as "Code Artist" :)
[03:22]<zgzzcydjvgev>its stupid to anyone who doesnt enjoy wasting time discussing trivialties
[03:22]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: I guess we're both stupid then, huh
[03:22]<zgzzcydjvgev>damieng - last i heard Kog doesnt live in his parent's basement
[03:22]<drdyrrr>Kog, you ever done fourier series?
[03:22]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: is there hope for our future yet?
[03:22]<drdyrrr>AnarkiDotNET, i moved out from my parents 12 years ago
[03:22]<zgzzcydjvgev>lol
[03:23]<kjr>damieng: I don't do phreaking anymore, and I have no other use for it
[03:23]<drdyrrr>i was 19... i would have moved out sooner but local law prevented it.
[03:23]<zgzzcydjvgev>"Star Trek DSL now available. Requirements: Must live in parent's basement."
[03:23]<cfudsd>local law?
[03:23]<kjr>damieng: I left my parents' house at 16, and there was probably a law against it
[03:23]<drdyrrr>housing laws here.
[03:23]<kjr>damieng: I was busy putting myself through a university
[03:23]<drdyrrr>if you weren't born in Guernsey it's a whole hoopla
[03:23]<zgzzcydjvgev>damieng probably lives in a shitty country if its illegal to move out untill you are 19
[03:24]<drdyrrr>you have to be here 15 years to get local residential status. moved here when i was 4.
[03:24]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: he doesn't really live in any particular country per se
[03:24]<zgzzcydjvgev>i live on IRC
[03:24]<zgzzcydjvgev>so....
[03:24]<kjr>AnarkiDotNET: it's more like a state of mind
[03:24]<drdyrrr>AnarkiDotNET, somebody born locally can move out when they want
[03:24]<zgzzcydjvgev>damieng - yeah, shitty country if they have laws like that
[03:24]<cfudsd>crazy buerracracy
[03:24]<drdyrrr>No.
[03:24]<drdyrrr>more like if they didn't have the laws the country would be overcrowded as hell.
[03:25]<zgzzcydjvgev>the USA? lol
[03:25]<cfudsd>what country?
[03:25]<drdyrrr>Guernsey
[03:25]<vynvyvq>wtf?

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