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[00:42]<wyfaj>frameworks like WCF make that obvious ;)
[00:42]<kjr>I'll let you know when I look at it
[00:42]<wyfaj>heh, ok
[00:42]<sdnffdxdlld>attributes are great
[00:42]<kjr>the idea of adding more syntax that the programmer needs to be conscious of can sometimes be messy
[00:42]<sdnffdxdlld>so damn handy and can cut out alot of coding
[00:42]<kjr>especially when it's to deal with a supposedly "managed" solution - something that's supposed to be automagical
[00:44]<wyfaj>simply imagine a world in .NET without (metadata) attributes :)
[00:44]<wyfaj>things like webservices, wcf, etc. wouldn't look quite as elegant
[00:44]<azyfm>it'd be a world full of xml config files
[00:44]<wyfaj>heh
[00:44]<azyfm>and that world already exists, it's called J2EE
[00:45]<wyfaj>yea, although aren't they moving to exploiting annotations for some of their stuff too now, in v5?
[00:45]<azyfm>Java 5.0 introduced "annotations"
[00:45]<wyfaj>:)
[00:45]<kjr>Arild: J2EE has been superceded by Java Enterprise
[00:45]<kjr>go figure
[00:46]<vynvyv>back to the future
[00:47]<vynvyv>yeah J2EE is just like that
[00:47]<vynvyv>it's really complicated
[00:47]<vynvyv>a very steep learning curve
[00:47]<sdz>hi
[00:47]<vynvyv>especially because every app has different xml files
[00:47]<sdz>is there a way to unload an assembly runtime from an appdomain?
[00:47]<kjr>tieTYT: pfft
[00:47]<kjr>tieTYT: POJO make it easy
[00:47]<azyfm>SDr: No, you have to tear down the appdomain
[00:47]<vynvyv>Kog: yeah it would....
[00:47]<vynvyv>i don't see how that's relevant
[00:47]<nvzzfzsv>j2ee is worthless.
[00:48]<kjr>I want to go alter some old WW2 propaganda and replace Tojo with POJO
[00:48]<vynvyv>evarlast: no it's not
[00:48]<nvzzfzsv>it isn't "enterprisey" enough.
[00:48]<wyfaj>SDr: yea, either load assemblies in their own appdomain and unload the appdomain, or use LCG
[00:48]<kjr>tieTYT: evarlast is trolling ;)
[00:48]<nvzzfzsv>damn. Just trying to spread fud and java hate. but you caught me.
[00:48]<sdz>wilco, LCG?
[00:48]<sdnffdxdlld>wilco LCG?
[00:48]<vynvyv>evarlast: pistols at dawn
[00:48]<sdnffdxdlld>lol
[00:48]<azyfm>LCG = System.Reflection.Emit.DynamicMethod
[00:48]<nvzzfzsv>tieTYT: how is this? j2ee is more trouble than it is worth.
[00:48]<wyfaj>lightweight code generation... it's not directly an answer to your question, but depending on what you're really trying to do it may be a solution you're trying to solve
[00:49]<sdnffdxdlld>ahhhhhh
[00:49]<vynvyv>i think it's slightly less trouble than it is
[00:49]<vynvyv>it's worth
[00:49]<wyfaj>it basically lets you create/compile a method at runtime, and when it's no longer reachable (just like any other object in .NET), it can be collected by the GC
[00:49]<nvzzfzsv>tieTYT: well, at least we have choices :)
[00:49]<nvzzfzsv>l8r.
[00:49]<vynvyv>evarlast: i thought you didn't
[00:49]<vynvyv>i thought it's MS's way or the highway
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>haha, nope.
[00:50]<vynvyv>what are your choices?
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>anything I want.
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>I could write iron python and boo if I wanted.
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>or java.
[00:50]<faccau>is there any way in an interface to specify something must be static? I want a static string name() function on anything that implements my interface....
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>or C or C++, but I doubt my team would like that much.
[00:50]<sdz>wilco, but still, if you are to use that method, you have to Assembly.Load it, ne?
[00:50]<vynvyv>oh you mean between languages
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>lokkju: nope.
[00:50]<azyfm>lokkju: no, and if you think about it, it doesn't make sense either
[00:50]<nvzzfzsv>tieTYT: or j2ee proper, or spring, or castle, or ???
[00:50]<vufvuzn>lokkju: what would be the point of that?
[00:50]<vynvyv>i thought you wre talking about backend frameworks
[00:50]<wyfaj>SDr: it's really an entirely different approach
[00:51]<vynvyv>evarlast: hibernate
[00:51]<vynvyv>or roll your own
[00:51]<nvzzfzsv>tieTYT: Castle's ActiveRecord > nhihbernate
[00:51]<vynvyv>i haven't even heard of castle
[00:51]<nvzzfzsv>tieTYT: its a .net thing.
[00:51]<vynvyv>oh
[00:51]<sdz>wilco, could you please give me a brief about this approach?
[00:51]<nvzzfzsv>l8r again.
[00:51]<wyfaj>SDr: you could for example implement a scripting engine that makes heavily use of LCG... in that case people can write scripts, you can unload them, etc
[00:52]<wyfaj>but obviously that involves implementing your own interpreter, unless you'd use something like IronPython or IronRuby :)
[00:52]<sdz>wilco, what about CLR code? can it compile&run&unload it?
[00:53]<sdz>in a manner, so that I can share an object with it?
[00:53]<wyfaj>with LCG you basically emit IL at runtime and compile it on the fly, then invoke it
[00:53]<faccau>vulture, so I could access the name() of the object, without making an instance of it...
[00:53]<wyfaj>sure you can
[00:53]<wyfaj>anyway, before we continue talking about it.... what is it really you want to do?
[00:54]<sdz>well, don't really think, that this tool would be any help in my specific problem, but I'm always open to learn about new toys ;)
[00:54]<wyfaj>add support for plugins? or something more generic, like scripting capabilities? something else?
[00:54]<azyfm>lokkju: to access a static method, you need the concrete type anyway, so you can just as well do typeof(WhateverClass).Name;
[00:54]<sdz>wilco, my specific problem is
[00:55]<faccau>Arild, but I'll be looping through all the classes in a specific namespace that implement my interface... I need it to implement the static name method as well
[00:55]<azyfm>use an attribute
[00:55]<sdz>wilco, that I've got a remote function, which gets an agent [it's an interface, having only one Run method], which does some stuff on the server side, and then passed back to the client
[00:55]<faccau>hmm
[00:55]<faccau>guess that would work
[00:56]<sdz>wilco, and my problem is, that with remoting, the code for the agent is loaded into the server, and I can't develop while the server is running, becouse it won't let me overwrite that same assembly
[00:57]<wyfaj>right
[00:57]<wyfaj>forget about LCG and look into appdomains + shadow copying
[00:57]<wyfaj>heh
[00:57]<wyfaj>brilliant minds etc. ;)
[00:57]<azyfm>heh
[00:58]<wyfaj>SDr: do you know ASP.NET ?
[00:58]<wyfaj>or rather, ever used it?
[00:59]<sdz>wilco, used several times, am not considering myself even a beginner on that topic

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