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[03:33]<kjr>[Thom]: if I was angry, you'd know it
[03:36]<rnzrnf_->today, sb came into a c#-chan and said that ppl rumored theres some money to earn by being capable of coding c#. Is this true, or where should i sort this in?
[03:37]<zgzzcydjvgev>i havent made anything yet...
[03:38]<txnjzd>It's an evil rumour, opensource has destroyed the profitability of coding
[03:39]<zndy_wjfnz|afk>can someone check if the ConfigurationManager class exists in the System.Configuration namespace? MSDN says it does, on my pc it doesn't :(
[03:40]<[txjd]>Theory: You can still make a lot of money, now you just _configure_ the code instead of _write_ it
[03:41]<kjr>if your motivation is money, go learn COBOL
[03:41]<kjr>or FORTRAN
[03:42]<rnzrnf_->but coding in c# is much more fun
[03:42]<[txjd]>and profitable
[03:42]<omdss1us>there is great money in .NET
[03:43]<fjfygmzrvx>Kog: you still need to wait 10 years, too many cobol programmers are still alive
[03:43]<[txjd]>Agreed.
[03:43]<omdss1us>however pretty much no matter what people want experience for decent paying contracting gigs
[03:43]<kjr>not true at all, in the US all you do is sign up with the DoD and earn a 6 figure income
[03:43]<omdss1us>but there are plenty of entry level salary positions around to get started in
[03:43]<kjr>define "entry level salary"
[03:44]<zndy_wjfnz|afk>ah well, off to bed. Maybe it exists tomorrow
[03:44]<rnzrnf_->i hate those phrases: "at least 3/5 years experience"
[03:44]<kjr>Azrael_-: the sad thing though, is they want 3-5 years corporate, not 3-5 years like they say
[03:44]<omdss1us>$40k/yr
[03:44]<omdss1us>ish
[03:45]<kjr>Azrael_-: which leads me to believe that they need to learn how to write specs
[03:45]<kjr>HR people seem inherently thoughtless
[03:45]<rnzrnf_->Kog: i know, that´s what i implicated
[03:45]<omdss1us>although most of those want a college degree in CS
[03:45]<kjr>Odyss3us: as well they should
[03:45]<omdss1us>if you know someone it probably won't matter
[03:45]<omdss1us>degrees are overrated
[03:46]<txnjzd>Let's not have this debate again
[03:46]<kjr>Theory: I won't engage in it
[03:46]<omdss1us>I'd rather hire someone with some open source project experience behind their belt
[03:46]<kjr>Odyss3us: I've got both, wanna hire me for great sums of cash?
[03:46]<kjr>I mean, monstrous amounts
[03:46]<rnzrnf_->Odyss3us: here in germany i don´t even know a place where you could get such a degree...
[03:46]<omdss1us>probably not
[03:46]<kjr>Odyss3us: you're no good to me then
[03:46]<omdss1us>I'm sure someone offers CS in germany
[03:46]<omdss1us>I know a professor of CS in germany
[03:47]<kjr>Azrael_-: a university seems like a good place to start ;)
[03:47]<rnzrnf_->ok, i´ll go for it perhaps in about 9 months or sth like this
[03:47]<rnzrnf_->first i´ll work 6 months
[03:48]<omdss1us>well unless you know someone good luck getting a job
[03:48]<omdss1us>I imagine it's even worse in germany where unemployment is higher than in the US
[03:48]<txnjzd>code something in your spare time that becomes famous
[03:48]<txnjzd>then start applying for jobs :-)
[03:48]<rnzrnf_->hehe, yeah, but first you have to find sth neat that is useful and can get famous
[03:48]<omdss1us>I mean eventually if you have experience getting jobs is easy, people start fighting over you
[03:49]<omdss1us>but with no exp, thats not easy
[03:49]<txnjzd>getting experience before you graduate helps :-)
[03:49]<rnzrnf_->that´s my big prob
[03:49]<kjr>Odyss3us: I've got exp, but it's open source
[03:49]<kjr>Odyss3us: corporate is only ~2 years
[03:49]<omdss1us>I am hiring Kog
[03:49]<rnzrnf_->ofc i already gain experience, but the problem is, the companies have to accept it
[03:50]<kjr>Odyss3us: where and what for
[03:50]<omdss1us>Chicago, ASP.NET/C#
[03:50]<kjr>are you the guy in ... yeah, chitown
[03:50]<omdss1us>I know you know your shit, but I'
[03:50]<omdss1us>m not paying anyone gobs of money
[03:50]<kjr>hahaha
[03:50]<rnzrnf_->is there a way to earn money with open source?
[03:50]<kjr>well... I'd probably also not get paid relocation costs
[03:50]<kjr>Azrael_-: yes
[03:51]<txnjzd>Azrael_-: be IBM
[03:51]<rnzrnf_->how?
[03:51]<kjr>Azrael_-: you can sell OSS
[03:51]<kjr>nothing says you can't
[03:51]<rnzrnf_->but as long as its free, why would sb then buy it?
[03:51]<txnjzd>you can sell services
[03:51]<kjr>why not?
[03:51]<txnjzd>support, installation, customisation
[03:51]<kjr>Theory: yeah, support most commonly
[03:53]<rnzrnf_->if the tool is big enough for needing support (most common you just create small useful programs that don´t need much support because of self-explanation)
[03:53]<kjr>Azrael_-: you should stop writing boring OSS ;)
[03:53]<zgzzcydjvgev>yeah, lol
[03:53]<kjr>Azrael_-: you can also do donationware
[03:53]<rnzrnf_->hehe, that´s an idea
[03:53]<kjr>although, don't send out annoying wallops when soliciting donations *cough*
[03:55]<rnzrnf_->ofc
[03:55]<omdss1us>Kog: we generally don't do relocation
[03:55]<kjr>Odyss3us: yeah...
[03:56]<omdss1us>thats not saying we won't
[03:56]<kjr>heh
[03:56]<omdss1us>espically since we wouldn't have to pay some fucking recuiter 25% of your salary
[03:56]<kjr>heh
[03:56]<kjr>you pay headhunters more than 10-15?
[03:56]<omdss1us>well 25% is high
[03:56]<kjr>wow... shit must be slow in Chitown
[03:56]<omdss1us>standard practice in chicago is 15%
[03:57]<omdss1us>it's a laborer's market right now
[03:57]<rnzrnf_->i´d then probably favourize oss with a licence that wouldn´t give away any rights
[03:57]<kjr>Odyss3us: maybe in Chitown
[03:57]<omdss1us>everyone is hiring, and theres not enough quality candidates to go around
[03:57]<omdss1us>you should see some of the offers I've been getting latley
[03:57]<kjr>Odyss3us: there never have been enough quality candidates, but there's a glut of "qualified" applicants
[03:57]<omdss1us>I could probably double my salary if I wanted to
[03:57]<kjr>Odyss3us: in chitown?
[03:57]<omdss1us>of course I'd get shit canned once the labor market died
[03:57]<omdss1us>or NYC

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