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[03:57]<kjr>Odyss3us: if you hear of anything in PDX, lemme know
[03:58]<omdss1us>NYc I know I could
[03:58]<omdss1us>PDX?
[03:58]<rnzrnf_->but first you have to get a good reputation in order to get such offers
[03:58]<kjr>I hate NYC with a passion
[03:58]<kjr>Odyss3us: Portland, OR
[03:58]<kjr>Azrael_-: not necessarily
[03:58]<txnjzd>anyone there desparate enough to fly me over to the states for summer to work for them? ;-)
[03:58]<kjr>Theory: no. stay in whatever country you already live in ;)
[03:58]<txnjzd>Kog: how dull :-)
[03:58]<rnzrnf_->Kog: how could this then take place?
[03:58]<kjr>all those bastards taking my jobs
[03:59]<txnjzd>outsourcing to the uk? hardly
[03:59]<kjr>Azrael_-: define "reputation"
[04:00]<ruyprrruyr>what does void do on main(); and what effect does void main have on the program if you were to remove it?
[04:00]<rnzrnf_->reputation = ppl know who you are and your skills. And such Infos only spread slowly around (imho)
[04:00]<kjr>Azrael_-: employers rarely know who anyone is
[04:00]<omdss1us>I've gotten a couple requests for me in portland in the last 6months
[04:00]<kjr>unless you've been in the biz
[04:00]<rnzrnf_->biz?
[04:00]<omdss1us>not a whole lot, but of course I live in CHI too
[04:00]<kjr>business
[04:01]<omdss1us>companies seem to like my resume
[04:01]<kjr>Odyss3us: wanna send me a copy?
[04:01]<zgzzcydjvgev>:P
[04:02]<kjr>Odyss3us: I think mine is alright
[04:02]<kjr>my problem, I think, is that I've been dealing too much w/ the head-hunters
[04:02]<omdss1us>http://www.wwidew.net/Resume.doc
[04:02]<omdss1us>I fucking hate recuiters
[04:02]<omdss1us>I actually tell recuiters to fuck off in my voice mail
[04:03]<zgzzcydjvgev>nice and professional...
[04:03]<omdss1us>"If this is in regards to a job oppurtunity, please hang up and email me at lind@yahoo.com"
[04:03]<kjr>Odyss3us: eah, but when most of your exp is OSS and you're only a couple years out of school, it can be hard to convince people that your experience is real
[04:03]<zgzzcydjvgev>Kog - yep :(
[04:03]<omdss1us>I didn't graduate from high school
[04:03]<omdss1us>whats your point?
[04:03]<zgzzcydjvgev>Odyss3us - got a GED?
[04:03]<omdss1us>no
[04:03]<omdss1us>I went to college
[04:03]<zgzzcydjvgev>oh...
[04:03]<omdss1us>and then dropped out after 2 years
[04:03]<kjr>Odyss3us: well, I'd say you're a lucky case
[04:03]<zgzzcydjvgev>i got a GED...havent gone to college yet
[04:04]<omdss1us>well I'm outta here
[04:04]<omdss1us>ttyl
[04:04]<kjr>seeya dude
[04:04]<zgzzcydjvgev>i thought about applying for a Microsoft Research division position but the minimum requirement for any Research position is a Ph.D in computer science
[04:05]<kjr>well yeah, their research divisions are doing some rather theoretical work
[04:05]<zgzzcydjvgev>yeah
[04:05]<zgzzcydjvgev>i wanted to see if i could get in on that Singularity project
[04:05]<kjr>yeah... good luck
[04:05]<zgzzcydjvgev>the operating system written in C#
[04:05]<kjr>MS has the bank and reputation to hire the best
[04:05]<rnzrnf_->Odyss3us: how old are you?
[04:05]<zgzzcydjvgev>yeah :/
[04:05]<txnjzd>well "reputation" is questionable
[04:06]<kjr>Theory: by reputation I meant pampering researcheres
[04:06]<kjr>but MS research is pretty hardcore these days
[04:09]<txnjzd>Azrael_-: you can estimate age fairly well from that resume :-)
[04:09]<kjr>I think that's inaccurate... in the corporate world you have so many shoddy corruptions of technology and skill
[04:09]<kjr>"get this done" "vaguely using best practices"
[04:09]<kjr>so some dude hacks out some shitty piece of application
[04:11]<kjr>needless to say, I'm very dissapointed with what the business world by-and-large calls programming
[04:14]<rnzrnf_->do you go through the whole design-process for every project you start?
[04:15]<kjr>I always start a software project with a pen and a piece of paper, or whiteboard and marker
[04:15]<kjr>perhaps I don't always spew out copious amounts of UML
[04:15]<rnzrnf_->hehe
[04:15]<zgzzcydjvgev>me too, i've got a couple thick notebooks i write in whenever i get an idea :)
[04:15]<kjr>I go through quite a few cheap legal yellow pads
[04:15]<txnjzd>I tend to start projects by talking to people about them
[04:16]<kjr>I usually snarf one from work when I come up
[04:16]<sdz>Kog, and do you think, that you can implement, and be market-ready with products using this methodology? at corporate level?
[04:16]<kjr>Theory: I like to solidify ideas first, but yeah... that's generally as a part of the initial project
[04:16]<kjr>SDr: first off, it's not a methodology, it's a method
[04:16]<kjr>SDr: secondly - define corporate level. Yes, I do it at work
[04:16]<sdz>Kog, keyword: "speed"
[04:17]<kjr>SDr: I always start a project at work asking questions and with a pen and paper
[04:17]<kjr>SDr: I consistently deliver what I say when I say I will
[04:17]<sdz>that's basically a very good ideal
[04:18]<mupmvz>revolving spec from client doesnt help
[04:18]<kjr>SDr: usually the small fast turnaround items are part of larger projects, so I pen those out
[04:18]<sdz>but, in my experience, usually the time invested into design [as in UML&stuff] doesn't really pays back as much
[04:18]<kjr>SDr: but I ended up writing a CSV -> SQL tool that took me ~20 minutes to overdesign
[04:18]<kjr>SDr: pen + paper != UML
[04:19]<kjr>SDr: if I wrote in UML at work I'd be the only one to understand it
[04:19]<sdz>hehe, me too
[04:19]<txnjzd>anything which stops me writing the wrong code is worth doing
[04:19]<txnjzd>as writing wrong code is almost certainly going to take longer than any method which avoids it
[04:20]<kjr>Theory: generic pen+paper follows no convention - except what you want - and usually helps the programmer get the idea
[04:20]<kjr>you can't write what you don't understand
[04:20]<txnjzd>yup
[04:20]<txnjzd>pen/paper or whiteboard are good
[04:20]<kjr>even if you don't require permanent artifacts, they're still good
[04:20]<mupmvz>clients write specs like that all the time
[04:20]<kjr>Theory: whiteboards are some of the greatest inventions ever
[04:20]<kjr>Theory: my first house will hav ean entire wall along a hallway out of showerboard
[04:20]<txnjzd>hehe
[04:21]<kjr>mufdvr: most of dealing with clients involves talking them out of things
[04:21]<txnjzd>Kog: that is better than smaller ones everywhere?
[04:21]<mupmvz>that can be difficult

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