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[13:33]<dyguw>I want to access those from "native" C++
[13:33]<drdyrrr>gl, you'll enjoy windows handles, flags and pointers.
[13:33]<drdyrrr>not forgetting message loops etc.
[13:34]<zyccus>and segfaults
[13:34]<sdz>minux, I've heard of a .NET "shell" for native applications, might have a luck with that
[13:34]<drdyrrr>?
[13:34]<dyguw>I've done native Win32 GUI programming before :)
[13:34]<drdyrrr>and you want to go back!
[13:34]<drdyrrr>If I was doing lightweight C++ coding under windows I'd grab WTL
[13:34]<dyguw>No, but I want "native" C++.
[13:34]<zyccus>I'd get Qt installed sharpish
[13:35]<sdz>minux, any specific reasons?
[13:35]<drdyrrr>rikkus, no thats if i wanted to do cross-platform and was willing to buy a licence.
[13:35]<dyguw>Yes, one specific reason. I am used to native C/C++... my brain isn't setup to think the way .NET thinks with GC's and stuff.
[13:35]<dyguw>I am used to manage my own applications =)
[13:35]<sdz>minux, oh, don't worry about that
[13:35]<zyccus>damieng: licenses are incredibly expensive... but probably worth it
[13:36]<sdz>minux, you'll get brainwashed in a couple of hours, once you start it >;)
[13:36]<dyguw>haha =)
[13:36]<zyccus>minux: you wouldn't like Qt then - it manages memory for you, too.
[13:36]<zyccus>even if it is 'native C++'
[13:36]<dyguw>ugh
[13:36]<drdyrrr>minux, those who don't move with progress get left behind.
[13:37]<dnscr>:D
[13:37]<dyguw>Why can't nobody understand a little programmer who wants to write native code?
[13:37]<drdyrrr>because you're in a c# channel?
[13:37]<dyguw>I guess.
[13:37]<sdz>damieng, don't tell him! evolution likes diversity, even if most of them is gona die >;)
[13:38]<drdyrrr>heh
[13:38]<dyguw>haha
[13:38]<2uc>one troll less to support
[13:38]<2uc>;^]
[13:39]<afd>hi all!
[13:39]<afd>lol damieng
[13:39]<afd>minux: what native code??
[13:40]<dyguw>For instance, writing a setup program in .NET isn't very smart since the target computer might not have .NET installed =)
[13:40]<sdnffdxdlld>lol
[13:40]<sdnffdxdlld>ello aqd
[13:40]<dyguw>Hi AqD, btw.
[13:40]<afd>minux: you can use qt?
[13:40]<afd>hi hippy!
[13:41]<dyguw>So I'll have to include Qt just to be able to install the program that uses .NET? :)
[13:41]<sdnffdxdlld>Moridin8, I've gotten a collegue to fire off a message on the msn news groups
[13:41]<sdz>minux, don't worry about that, we can controll it with some medication ;)
[13:41]<tdlnr>god i didn't notice my book is 1416 pages :O
[13:41]<zyccus>minux: er, that's not a problem... Windows Installer can install the .NET framework for you, before your installer code runs.
[13:41]<afd>minux: no i mean to use qt/c++
[13:41]<dyguw>AqD: I dislike Qt.
[13:41]<dyguw>rikkus: Nice.
[13:41]<afd>minux: there aren't better choices
[13:42]<dyguw>I guess.. well, MFC =)
[13:42]<afd>minux: besides qt has full support for vs.net
[13:42]<afd>minux: and qt is much easier than mfc :)
[13:42]<drdyrrr>don't use MFC.
[13:42]<drdyrrr>Use WTL.
[13:42]<dyguw>I like MFC, I coded it for years :)
[13:42]<drdyrrr>WTL is what MFC would have been if templates had been used.
[13:42]<zyccus> /topic minux I like MFC
[13:42]<drdyrrr>and it's fully open source.
[13:42]<afd>minux: things change over time
[13:42]<drdyrrr>and created by microsoft.
[13:43]<drdyrrr>it's smaller, faster and easier to maintain.
[13:43]<dyguw>Jesus, I am 19 and I feel like an old fool who don't want to change.
[13:43]<dnscr>:D
[13:43]<drdyrrr>yeah i had resistence to oo coming from my basic/asm/cobol background.
[13:43]<dnscr>wish i was so smart when i was 19
[13:43]<dnscr>;]
[13:43]<sdz>btw, for installer, we've got nsis
[13:44]<sdz>by nullsoft: http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Main_Page
[13:44]<sdz>native, opensource, supports including/downloading .NET, lightweight, heavily scriptable
[13:44]<sdz>what more could a geek want? ;)
[13:44]<zyccus>does it use MSI?
[13:45]<sdz>erm, like, no?
[13:45]<drdyrrr>well then theres the answer to your own question.
[13:45]<zyccus>sounds good then
[13:45]<zyccus>MSI requires several weeks of learning which I don't have time for
[13:45]<drdyrrr>unless you intend on actually selling to businesses
[13:46]<drdyrrr>rikkus, and without an MSI package big business's can't be arsed to reverse engineer your installer for deployment.
[13:46]<zyccus>damieng: I couldn't use it (NSIS) myself, for that reason
[13:46]<dyguw>I got InstallShield installed. I'll use that when I'll create my setup programs.
[13:46]<zyccus>damieng: Unilever like to take our stuff to bits and make their own version
[13:46]<sdz>btw, meska, the ride is still getting faster, so I would highly recommend fastening your seatbelts, and sharping your brain, 'couse it just ai'nt gona be simpler than this, ever.
[13:46]<dyguw>rikkus: Unilever? The food company? You work for them?
[13:47]<zyccus>minux: no, we sell to them
[13:47]<dyguw>Cool.
[13:48]<sdz>[singularity, anyone? ;) ]
[13:48]<dyguw>Oh, I can do new/delete with Managed C++ :D
[13:48]<rnzrnf_->how could i get the gmt unix time in c'?
[13:49]<zyccus>why do you want to do new/delete?
[13:49]<zyccus>what's wrong with new ... and pass to some other object that'll delete it when appropriate?
[13:49]<zyccus>Azrael_-: look at the DateTime class
[13:49]<dyguw>I don't use C++, I just got surprised that it was possible :)
[13:49]<dyguw>I use C#
[13:49]<rnzrnf_->k
[13:49]<sdz>minux, you can always do GC.Collect instead of delete/free ;)
[13:50]<dyguw>Hmm, yes, that would be a nice idea.
[13:50]<sdnffdxdlld>lol now theres some good advice :P
[13:50]<zyccus>Azrael_-: you want UtcNow
[13:51]<zyccus>Azrael_-: if you want to convert that to UNIX time, subtract 1970-01-01T00:00:00
[13:51]<dyguw>Now I just have to install VB and I got the entire VSPro installed =)

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