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[00:50]<afd>Element61: lol :)
[00:50]<lnvnzxu>i-nZ: luckily, a unix fan and a microsoft developer do not need to be mutually exclusive
[00:50]<jrrcrdrg>peterhu: all right thanks
[00:50]<lnvnzxu>one of my teammates, for example, used a fluxbox port on top of cygwin
[00:51]<y-gz>but the unix guy compares and so
[00:51]<y-gz>where as the ms guy just says "this is great"
[00:51]<y-gz>"this future is great"
[00:51]<y-gz>"this is amazing"
[00:51]<afd>i-nZ: at least he believe it
[00:51]<gfgdggv7w>unix guys rarely compare anything
[00:51]<gfgdggv7w>they generally contrast, like so:
[00:51]<gfgdggv7w>"This thing sucks. It does not behave like UNIX, which behaves like so and so, which is the CORRECT behavior"
[00:52]<afd>i-nZ: what life would be if you find nothing amazing and great in your world? ;)
[00:53]<y-gz>the probem I see is that my coursemates come out brainwashed - without an idea about anything different from MS technology
[00:53]<lnvnzxu>i prefer people that simply appreciate technologies
[00:53]<lnvnzxu>i-nZ: that's unfortunate
[00:53]<y-gz>they just repeat what they've been told to
[00:53]<afd>i-nZ: it's sad some f/oss projects don't want to be great
[00:53]<afd>i-nZ: heh :)
[00:53]<gfgdggv7w>the brainwashing goes in every direction
[00:53]<afd>i-nZ: because they know nothing else
[00:53]<gfgdggv7w>people who only know MS tech, people who can't comprehend anything that isn't UNIX/Linux, etc
[00:53]<afd>i-nZ: they will change if you show something better
[00:54]<gfgdggv7w>i always prided myself on being proficient in every environment, even if one or two of those environments make me want to die
[00:54]<jrrcrdrg>whats wrong with being a unix fan
[00:54]<afd>JackRyan: unix is rather easy to handle? ;)
[00:54]<jrrcrdrg>i used to think microsoft sucks a lot
[00:54]<y-gz>i like gnu/linux, but I like C# too
[00:54]<jrrcrdrg>now because i discovered .NET i think they dont suck as much ;)
[00:55]<y-gz>see :)
[00:55]<y-gz>i don't have my eyes closed for technologies :)
[00:55]<jrrcrdrg>although reading/writing to a /dev/device is still more convenient then whatever the hell windows has
[00:56]<gfgdggv7w>how often do you actually write to something in /dev, hmm?
[00:56]<afd>JackRyan: windwos does have device files :)
[00:56]<afd>JackRyan: it's just hidden, not in usually C:, D:, etc
[00:56]<y-gz>when creating an array of objects ... is there a way to specify which constructor to be called ?
[00:56]<afd>i-nZ: no
[00:56]<afd>i-nZ: because you dont create the objects
[00:56]<jrrcrdrg>i write stuff to /dev/null all the time :)
[00:57]<afd>you create an array that will hold them, it's empty
[00:57]<lnvnzxu>i-nZ: allocating an array of references doesn't create the objects; there is no shorthand syntax that does
[00:57]<y-gz>myObject[] banana = new myObject[20];
[00:57]<y-gz>aham
[00:57]<y-gz>right
[00:57]<sxyrrjcy>I've done similar usb drivers for windows and linux, linux is far easier
[00:57]<y-gz>i know it doesn't actually "Create" them .. it's just the word I use :)
[00:57]<sxyrrjcy>this is why you see so many cross platform libraries where the windows version lags behind
[00:57]<sxyrrjcy>because windows driver model is a pain
[00:57]<lnvnzxu>Foo[] f = new Foo[5] { new Foo(...), ... }; is the best you'll get
[00:58]<gfgdggv7w>what "stuff" do you send to /dev/null?
[00:58]<rxrcr>shingoki, I've heard many microsoft employees complain about windows driver architecture
[00:58]<gfgdggv7w>no shingoki, not really
[00:58]<gfgdggv7w>the reason cross platform libs lag behind on windows is a little different
[00:59]<lnvnzxu>6 pm on a boring day, i think it's time to head home
[00:59]<afd>what's the reason??
[00:59]<rjjgwq>I agree!
[00:59]<jrrcrdrg>all kinds of stuff :)
[00:59]<jrrcrdrg>like when i dont want to see the output :D
[00:59]<lnvnzxu>heh
[00:59]<afd>hmm it's 6AM here
[00:59]<jrrcrdrg> /dev/null is like magic
[00:59]<afd>no, /dev/zero is
[00:59]<gfgdggv7w>if you look at the people developing cross platform libs, they're usually the linux or bsd crowd, not the windows devs
[00:59]<jrrcrdrg>dd /dev/hda if=/dev/urandom of=4 :D
[00:59]<lnvnzxu>urandom is useful; for instance, you could encrypt your swap partition with on boot trivially using a cryptloop
[00:59]<gfgdggv7w>so they're naturally better with, and more interested in, the unix side
[00:59]<lnvnzxu>+it
[01:00]<jrrcrdrg>haha i mentioned urandom first :D
[01:00]<sxyrrjcy>Element61, I imagine that is a factor, but the difficulty of windows driver development doesn't help
[01:00]<gfgdggv7w>no, it doesn't
[01:01]<gfgdggv7w>but i don't think it's the primary factor
[01:01]<lnvnzxu>aww
[01:01]<svryg>######csharp
[01:01]<lnvnzxu>i was hoping kog would lay the smack down
[01:01]<kjr>peterhu: what?
[01:01]<afd>morning Kog!
[01:01]<kjr>I was going to invite nooby - he couldn't figure out how to join a channel
[01:01]<lnvnzxu>ah
[01:01]<lnvnzxu>i was expected a boot
[01:01]<gjj2d>ewwww c#
[01:02]<afd>lol i saw him in #java
[01:02]<afd>hi nooby!
[01:02]<gjj2d>hey
[01:02]<kjr>who was I booting? oh... some dude named stain
[01:08]<jdvgdjgcgd>i have an interesting quandry
[01:09]<jdvgdjgcgd>i'm using a component to send emails called chilkat
[01:09]<afd>chilkat??
[01:09]<jdvgdjgcgd>when sending an email through an exchange server using ntlm auth
[01:09]<jdvgdjgcgd>everything works out
[01:09]<afd>hmmm
[01:09]<jdvgdjgcgd>but, i recently moved this program into a windows service running as localsystem
[01:09]<y-gz>i remmember this name from my vb 6 days
[01:09]<jdvgdjgcgd>now, ntlm fails
[01:09]<lnvnzxu>ok i need to head home, have a good evening folks
[01:09]<y-gz>chilkat
[01:09]<y-gz>lol
[01:10]<jdvgdjgcgd>why would the same credentials fail for ntlm, when running as local system
[01:11]<jdvgdjgcgd>any ideas?
[01:11]<z1gm1z>plenty
[01:12]<jdvgdjgcgd>how about related to this problem

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