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[02:16]<gfgdggv7w>it's not part of the spec, and if you're writing cross platform apps you obviously don't useit
[02:16]<zgzzcydjvgev>you save development time streamlining a game to work for only windows, afaik
[02:17]<gfgdggv7w>you don't go writing directx code and complaining that it doesn't work on OSX
[02:17]<gfgdggv7w>so why would you do that with Windows.Forms?
[02:17]<ygvgzpgzjg>opengl ++
[02:17]<zgzzcydjvgev>:)
[02:17]<jrrcrdrg>Element, yes, but it looks like its part of the regular library so people just use it and then code doesnt go cross platform
[02:17]<jrrcrdrg>Anyway what would you suggest for cross-platform GUI develeopment?
[02:17]<gfgdggv7w>those people are idiots
[02:17]<zgzzcydjvgev>thats not MS's fault
[02:17]<gfgdggv7w>Gtk# works fine
[02:17]<zgzzcydjvgev>or mono's fault
[02:17]<gfgdggv7w>i think there's Qt# too, though i was never that fond of Qt
[02:18]<jrrcrdrg>windows is already DLL hell, you want even more dependencies?
[02:18]<jrrcrdrg>maybe when they come out with a win32 version of synaptic
[02:18]<y-gz>qt# -> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2090
[02:18]<gfgdggv7w>i've never experienced DLL hell myself
[02:18]<y-gz>looks like crap
[02:18]<ygvgzpgzjg>JackRyan, run it with cygwin
[02:18]<jrrcrdrg>please people, be practical..
[02:19]<y-gz>Connect(lcdRange, SIGNAL("valueChanged(int)"),
[02:19]<gfgdggv7w>probably because most devs figured out early on that it's better to keep private copies of libraries instead of shoving them in system32
[02:19]<gfgdggv7w>i think Gtk# even has plugins for VS so you can use the designer
[02:19]<gfgdggv7w>although i want to see Avalon ported to Mono, more
[02:19]<y-gz>no you can't do that
[02:19]<gfgdggv7w>Avalon is slick
[02:19]<gfgdggv7w>i-nZ, can't do what?
[02:19]<gfgdggv7w>use the designer?
[02:19]<y-gz>but the gtk# installer installs project templates etc
[02:20]<y-gz>you can't have glade nor steticintegrated in VS
[02:20]<gfgdggv7w>no, i think somebody else (not the mono guys) wrote designer integration
[02:20]<y-gz>not can't, but rather they aren't
[02:20]<gfgdggv7w>i wish i could remember the name or find the link
[02:20]<y-gz>there is designer integration in monodevelop
[02:21]<y-gz>using the Stetic lib
[02:21]<gfgdggv7w>anyway, point is that if you're doing cross platform dev, don't use platform specific libs
[02:21]<y-gz>of course :)
[02:21]<gfgdggv7w>and it's not like java magically solves cross platform issues either
[02:21]<jrrcrdrg>so if you want to experience pain, dont use the good libraries? ok
[02:21]<gfgdggv7w>if you're doing cross platform dev, you have to pay attention from the beginning, no matter what language, libs, or whatever you're using
[02:22]<kjr>Java doesn't solve cross platform issues?
[02:22]<kjr>I want whatever you're smoking
[02:22]<jrrcrdrg>the fact of the matter is, mono maybe runs on a few platforms.. Cpp and C runs on your grandpa's 8086
[02:22]<kjr>JackRyan: C and CPP aren't eminently portable either...
[02:23]<gfgdggv7w>true JackRyan, if all you ever do are write simplistic text mode apps
[02:23]<gfgdggv7w>which nobody does.
[02:23]<jrrcrdrg>no but dont be surprised when the language has compilers on far more platforms
[02:23]<gfgdggv7w>the way I see it, .NET works on Windows and OSX, and that's good enough
[02:24]<gfgdggv7w>BSD and linux are useful on the ASP.NET side i guess
[02:24]<gfgdggv7w>and Solaris...well, whatever people use Solaris for nowadays
[02:24]<jrrcrdrg>good enough for you, not good enough for oss
[02:24]<y-gz>http://mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms
[02:25]<gfgdggv7w>yeah? what's missing that is so important?
[02:25]<jrrcrdrg>an effective deployment system
[02:25]<gfgdggv7w>uh...don't see what that has to do with OS support
[02:25]<gfgdggv7w>but have you looked at ClickOnce ?
[02:26]<jrrcrdrg>its gotta be easy to deploy on any os
[02:26]<jrrcrdrg>whats that?
[02:26]<gfgdggv7w>oh, clickonce is not OS independent
[02:26]<gfgdggv7w>well, there goes that idea.
[02:26]<jrrcrdrg>heh, no its not
[02:27]<gfgdggv7w>anyways, i want to see Avalon on Mono
[02:27]<jrrcrdrg>microsoft should just ripoff synaptic.. nobody would mind
[02:27]<gfgdggv7w>Avalon is amazing
[02:27]<gfgdggv7w>no, they shouldn't
[02:27]<fz1dbz>hello
[02:27]<gfgdggv7w>they should rip off OSX
[02:27]<fz1dbz>anyone know an example
[02:27]<gfgdggv7w>because OSX got it right
[02:27]<fz1dbz>of a Synchronous C# Server
[02:27]<jrrcrdrg>eh, what kind of package management does osx have
[02:27]<fz1dbz>that support multi clients?
[02:28]<jrrcrdrg>Fr3DBr: whats so hard about that, just handle each TCP request one by one :P
[02:28]<gfgdggv7w>JackRyan, installation = drag folder to Applications. uninstallation = delete folder from Applications.
[02:28]<zndy_wjfnz>tbr: Your solution works, but it is not completely what I need. I need to access the value outside the constructor too
[02:28]<fz1dbz>JackRyan i wanted something like C Select()
[02:28]<jrrcrdrg>Element61: umm yeah... you should try synaptic
[02:28]<jrrcrdrg>cause thats not what im talking about at all
[02:28]<gfgdggv7w>i've used synaptic, because i've been using ubuntu for two years
[02:28]<jrrcrdrg>your analogy is more keen to rpm
[02:28]<gfgdggv7w>and the entire package management thing is only necessary because the UNIX style file system is such a mess
[02:29]<zndy_wjfnz>Element61: most apps are one file, right? And they can be run from anywhere, right?
[02:29]<gfgdggv7w>Remi_Woler, pretty much
[02:29]<jrrcrdrg>Fr3DBr: ah, select... you want to listen from multiple sockets?
[02:29]<zgzzcydjvgev>but that provides absolutely no OS-controlled data persistance
[02:29]<zgzzcydjvgev>eg the windows registry
[02:29]<zndy_wjfnz>Element61: thought my brain was melting or something. I used to work on a mac a few years ago :p
[02:29]<gfgdggv7w>some apps are folder instead of a file, but they're relocatable and everything
[02:29]<fz1dbz>well Jack i want to have a listen socket
[02:29]<fz1dbz>and for example 100 guys connected on it.
[02:29]<jrrcrdrg>dragging something into Applications doesnt HELP if you dont have it in the first place
[02:29]<jrrcrdrg>how do you download the package in the first place, magic?
[02:29]<gfgdggv7w>AnarkiDotNET, persistence is somewhat new-age windows style, with an application data type folder
[02:30]<gfgdggv7w>JackRyan, most people buy apps on CDs, and for the rest you go to the site. Package management is seriously overrated.
[02:30]<jrrcrdrg>hahahah... yeah
[02:30]<jrrcrdrg>guess ubuntu has spoiled you
[02:31]<gfgdggv7w>even in Ubuntu, if I don't already KNOW what package i want, i'm pretty boned
[02:31]<jrrcrdrg>lets say I need a microsoft office update
[02:31]<gfgdggv7w>usually it's quicker to ask in IRC than to try to use their sorry excuse for search
[02:31]<jrrcrdrg>i have to browse to their site

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