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[19:39]<mjzymygo>seriously?
[19:40]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>yep
[19:40]<mjzymygo>OMG
[19:40]<fyfuym-syfggag>seriously?
[19:40]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>for about half an hour i couldn't figure out why it wasn't there
[19:40]<mjzymygo>*LOL*
[19:40]<mjzymygo>hehe... nor me...
[19:41]<fyfuym-syfggag>I made a mistake once
[19:41]<fyfuym-syfggag>hmmm
[19:41]<fyfuym-syfggag>ok lets pass on that
[19:41]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>well, technically, it was your parents making the mistake ;-)
[19:41]<azyfm>me neither, damieng-work - but since I don't make mistakes, it's a moot point anyway
[19:41]<mjzymygo>were you here for that convo when I made that dumb sweeping statement about scripting languages not being pure programming languages...
[19:41]<mjzymygo>*lol*
[19:41]<fyfuym-syfggag>Moridin8: that is true in a way tho
[19:41]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>actually Arild I was thinking that of the channel I'd consider yourself and Wilco two very good egoless programmers.
[19:42]<mjzymygo>It turned into a good convo down the pub that weekend when I talked to my mates about the convo...
[19:42]<azyfm>heh
[19:42]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>although I was cursing you earlier when ankhsvn went crazy with null references
[19:42]<mjzymygo>not sure about ego-less with Wilco...
[19:42]<azyfm>someone beat wilco to the punch with the .NET Ruby stuff, didn't they?
[19:42]<fyfuym-syfggag>does it not become a progrtamming language when it becomes compiled?
[19:42]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>Moridin8, I'd peg it well below yours ;-)
[19:43]<mjzymygo>=O)
[19:43]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>Anyway, we won't see much of Wilco now, he's back at MS
[19:43]<mjzymygo>i've caught wilco out once or twice and he won't admit it... just go quiet.
[19:43]<fyfuym-syfggag>ah
[19:43]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>Arild, hows the ORM going?
[19:43]<azyfm>it's all a mess
[19:43]<fyfuym-syfggag>bbl
[19:43]<fyfuym-syfggag>reinstall
[19:43]<fyfuym-syfggag>w00000000000000t
[19:43]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>:(
[19:43]<azyfm>fortunately, the ORM part is but a small part of the overall mess
[19:44]<mjzymygo>Arild: this yourown ORM?
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>Moridin8: I am coding my own aswell
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>it does inserts and selects atm
[19:44]<azyfm>not really - we started out with one that's called Codus
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>with transactions
[19:44]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>custom templates on a customised open-source code gen tool iirc
[19:44]<azyfm>but it's pretty heavily rewritten
[19:44]<mjzymygo><-- has near complete ORM... but dropped dev for now
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>and generates SQL
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>thats about it
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>anyway
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>bbiab
[19:44]<dzdyzzz-wjzc><-- has custom templates for CodeSmith
[19:44]<fyfuym-syfggag>I dont like codeslut
[19:45]<azyfm>I wrote a pretty nice query framework, though
[19:45]<mjzymygo><-- ORM beats the piss out of nHibernate
[19:45]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>in fact changed mine recently so that the bus objects can now generate base classes or partials and use either nullabletypes.net or .net 2's nullables...
[19:45]<fyfuym-syfggag>nhibernate is crap
[19:45]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>and now supports List<T>
[19:45]<fyfuym-syfggag>sorry to say it
[19:45]<azyfm>you can do stuff like Criteria.Customer crit = Customer.CustomerID != 42 & Customer.Name.BeginsWith("Arild");
[19:45]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>Arild, hope it's better than the crap Jimmy Nillson is pushing in his .net book
[19:46]<sdnffdxdlld>rawr
[19:46]<fyfuym-syfggag>bbl
[19:46]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>sounds good
[19:46]<azyfm>it's generated from the database
[19:46]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>thats also my preference.
[19:46]<sdnffdxdlld>yer mine too
[19:46]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>and one reason why I've ignored the likes of LLBLGenPro
[19:47]<azyfm>the client part of the app uses that to do queries, passes the criteria objects over to the BL, where it's turned into SQL
[19:47]<sdnffdxdlld>I gen all the stored procs and the business objects from a well formed db
[19:47]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>system we have here generates a business object that has nout knowlege of the db other than properties that match fields.
[19:48]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>and a storage class for each object that handles the updates etc. used to use sp's but now it's 100% parameterised queries.
[19:48]<azyfm>ours distinguish between business objects and "entity objects"
[19:48]<azyfm>a business-object has-an entity
[19:48]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>also have a strongly typed collection class but thats a hang-over from .net 1.1
[19:48]<sdnffdxdlld>I use attributes and target the fields of the business object rather than the properties
[19:48]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>the entity is what's stored to the db?
[19:48]<azyfm>yeah
[19:48]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>a memento then
[19:48]<azyfm>it's also what's passed over the remoting layer
[19:49]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>and represents the state
[19:49]<azyfm>yes
[19:49]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>memento pattern
[19:49]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>gof
[19:49]<azyfm>I'm familiar with it, just hadn't thought about it in those terms before
[19:49]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>we have that in a couple of places where the business logic is too much for a simple object, i.e. subclasses etc.
[19:50]<mjzymygo>FUCK... just heard a gun shot...
[19:50]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>you live in the USA?
[19:50]<mjzymygo>Worcester... UK
[19:50]<azyfm>back in the Progress days, it worked more or less the same, but instead of the Codus-generated entity objects, we had typed datasets
[19:50]<sdnffdxdlld>lol gun capital of the world!
[19:50]<mjzymygo>obviously...
[19:50]<mjzymygo>sounded like a shot gun
[19:50]<sdnffdxdlld>ikea keeps getting near shoot outs where he is :S
[19:50]<mjzymygo>wtf
[19:51]<sdnffdxdlld>Moridin8, ya hear about the murders at number 13 in frankwell?
[19:51]<sdnffdxdlld>(I cant rememeber if we talked about it last night)
[19:51]<mjzymygo>smippy: we talked about it yesterday motning
[19:51]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>Arild I'd love to some more of your orm stuff ;-)
[19:51]<mjzymygo>any more news?
[19:51]<sdnffdxdlld>lol
[19:51]<sdnffdxdlld>not that i've heard
[19:52]<azyfm>damieng-work - you're not german, are you?
[19:52]<dzdyzzz-wjzc>no but my gf is

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