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[01:58]<zgzzcygnv>i havent patented it or anything, since A) i dont know if theres prior art and B) i dont have the knowhow and time to write up all the patent documents
[01:58]<zgzzcygnv>plus i havent really finalized every little aspect of it
[01:59]<txnjzd>do you have it working?
[01:59]<zgzzcygnv>no :P
[02:00]<txnjzd>it sounds "fun" to debug
[02:00]<zgzzcygnv>yeah...
[02:01]<zgzzcygnv>jesus
[02:01]<zgzzcygnv>CodeVeil is $900
[02:02]<txnjzd>It's not cheap
[02:02]<zgzzcygnv>yeah
[02:03]<zgzzcygnv>thats almost 2 months rent
[02:03]<zgzzcygnv>i might go with plan B which is to not release the server assembly at all and instead sell space/subscriptions/whatever to use it
[02:04]<zgzzcygnv>eg i'd do the hosting and charge for it
[02:05]<zgzzcygnv>oh and is it just me, or does the Xheo logo look like a photoshopped XBox logo? :P
[02:05]<zgzzcygnv>http://www.xheo.com/images/doclogo.gif
[02:06]<`d0>hey if I have static .libs written in C++, how can I port them into c#?
[02:07]<txnjzd>AnarkiNet: if you add no privacy, some people are going to steal it, probably
[02:07]<txnjzd>some, a few, of these people are people who might otherwise have bought it
[02:07]<txnjzd>that's a cost
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>right
[02:08]<txnjzd>if you introduce measures to make it hard to steal it
[02:08]<txnjzd>these are likely to get in the way of legitimate users
[02:08]<txnjzd>e.g. dsl connection goes down, your collaborative editting session just stops
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>yeah, thats "The Great Balance"
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>er
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>the session would die anyways :P
[02:09]<txnjzd>AnarkiNet: not if the server was local
[02:09]<zgzzcygnv>unless it was a LAN-based session
[02:09]<zgzzcygnv>well
[02:09]<zgzzcygnv>something like Steam has an Offline mode
[02:09]<txnjzd>yeah, it sucks for counterstrike :-)
[02:09]<txnjzd>my personal view is most companies err too much on the side of making copying difficult
[02:09]<zgzzcygnv>maybe i just need to make a "license file" or some sort of cached thing like that
[02:09]<zgzzcygnv>yeah, i agree
[02:09]<txnjzd>current example being WGA
[02:09]<zgzzcygnv>however, now that i'm on the other side of the coin
[02:10]<zgzzcygnv>i realize that money is the only real benefit of a commercial application
[02:10]<zgzzcygnv>so you have to make as much of it as possible
[02:10]<`d0>instead of using interoping what other way can I use the static .lib from c++ to C#?
[02:10]<txnjzd>AnarkiNet: this is entirely external to the argument
[02:10]<txnjzd>the argument is that you lose more customers through being a nuisance than you gain through preventing piracy
[02:10]<`d0>i have to source files, but I don't feel like to redo them
[02:11]<txnjzd>thus make fewer sales
[02:11]<zgzzcygnv>well, ITMS sells DRMed files, however the DRM really doesnt get in the way except for the small fraction who dont have iPods
[02:11]<txnjzd>people who don't have iPods don't use iTunes
[02:12]<zgzzcygnv>exactly
[02:12]<zgzzcygnv>but lots of people do
[02:12]<txnjzd>true, over 80%
[02:12]<zgzzcygnv>and they wouldnt if the DRM was too heavy
[02:12]<txnjzd>yes they would
[02:12]<txnjzd>what choice do they have?
[02:12]<zgzzcygnv>rootkits from sony? lol
[02:12]<txnjzd>besides, iTunes, windows, office, etc.
[02:12]<txnjzd>these are all mass market products
[02:13]<txnjzd>targetting (at least in part) indivudlas
[02:13]<txnjzd>individuals pirate a whole load more than companies
[02:13]<zgzzcygnv>yeah
[02:14]<zgzzcygnv>i want my product to be adopted by open source or freeware developers but i need anyone that uses it to make money to give me some
[02:14]<zgzzcygnv>i realize this sounds somewhat greedy but
[02:14]<zgzzcygnv>i realized recently that open source software wont pay the bills
[02:14]<txnjzd>you can always charge for support
[02:14]<txnjzd>deployment, etc
[02:15]<txnjzd>more relevantly, release it under something like the GPL, and hope some rich company finds it, likes it, and buys the copyright from you :-)
[02:15]<zgzzcygnv>hmmm
[02:16]<zgzzcygnv>Xiph was trying to get the ok from microsoft to work on this with me
[02:16]<zgzzcygnv>but i havent seen him in here for a while untill now
[02:16]<zgzzcygnv>must be real busy
[02:16]<txnjzd>yeah
[02:20]<xylxjzys>hi
[02:20]<zgzzcygnv>hmm one thing i could do (i suppose) is make it only run on windows server 2003 and windows xp pro if the user had a valid license
[02:20]<xylxjzys>I only recently got the OK from microsoft to work on my existing, old projects
[02:20]<zgzzcygnv>i mean, i know that most users run xp pro (most windows users)...
[02:20]<zgzzcygnv>oh, sucks -_-
[02:21]<zgzzcygnv>well
[02:21]<zgzzcygnv>that came out wrong
[02:21]<zgzzcygnv>good that you can work on your existing projects, but sucks that this one is still off limits
[02:22]<txnjzd>AnarkiNet: write the thing, then think about licenses :-)
[02:25]<txnjzd>right, iteration 2 of my php MVC system designed
[02:28]<zgzzcygnv>what is MVC?
[02:29]<zgzzcygnv>like, what *is* it, not the acronym
[02:29]<txnjzd>it's a way of separating out bits of your app
[02:29]<txnjzd>you have the model, which is the data
[02:30]<txnjzd>so for example your database layer
[02:30]<txnjzd>or your object model
[02:30]<txnjzd>the "things" of your system
[02:30]<txnjzd>you have a view, which are the visualisations of the data
[02:30]<txnjzd>for example, your windows forms
[02:30]<txnjzd>or your .aspx files
[02:31]<zgzzcygnv>oh
[02:31]<txnjzd>then you have the controllers, which respond to user requests (e.g. delete this object) and operate on the model
[02:33]<txnjzd>googling for model view controller will give you lots of good information on the topic
[02:40]<maxgg>heh
[02:40]<maxgg>anyone here uses Cute Soft's products?
[02:40]<maxgg>i don't know what we are doing wrong, it's kind of hard to get attention from their support
[02:41]<maxgg>product's awesome, but the front they have (forward you to support forum for all problems without telephone number) really puts on damper on things when we run into a show stopper
[02:48]<ajsnlx>Hey guys (and girls) I'm calling a form within a case statement to get a value for a password. The case statement is in a for loop, so I can't really call the form outside the case statement. The form sets a value for the password (it's a public function on the calling form, m_password). I don't want the function to continue until the called form sets the property, because I'm using that in an insert command imidiately after.
[02:56]<2jnyn_slymnn>hey everyone
[02:56]<ajsnlx>Hey boriz
[02:58]<2jnyn_slymnn>hey joseph, i have a couple of questions regarding windows forms in c#, am I in the right place?
[02:58]<ajsnlx>yeah

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