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[00:00]<maxgg>they are the main driver of such platform deployments, because the alternatives aren't pretty
[00:00]<rrygn606>dchen: The key problem is that we need to bundle flash AND java, together, or possibly flash and C#.
[00:00]<rrygn606>Currently the code is in java.
[00:00]<maxgg>there aren't industrial strength java/.net interpreters/players for fla files
[00:00]<rrygn606>There are some immmature java based flash players.
[00:00]<rrygn606>dchen: .swf is ok...
[00:00]<rrd2uppnv>anyone have a tut on gridviews within gridviews ?
[00:00]<maxgg>there aren't really decent wayt to do flash-like prototyping in .net/java
[00:00]<maxgg>so projectors
[00:00]<rrygn606>dchen: I'm not quite sure what you mean though.
[00:01]<rrygn606>dchen: I'm really not clear on what 'projector' means in general.
[00:01]<maxgg>SWF files can also be encapsulated with the player, creating a self-running SWF movie called a "projector".
[00:01]<maxgg>-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWF
[00:01]<rrygn606>Ah.
[00:02]<rrygn606>The big problem is the integration with java or C# code.
[00:02]<maxgg>It would be easiest if your target platform is windows and mac
[00:02]<maxgg>since projectors are platform specific
[00:02]<rrygn606>Target platform is windows AND mac.
[00:02]<maxgg>and the most stable and largest projector-creaters work only for windows, sometimes for both
[00:02]<maxgg>or only for mac
[00:02]<maxgg>it's frustrating, i did some research on this when considering flash as a target platform
[00:02]<rrygn606>But will any of the projector-creators also bundle in other code?
[00:03]<maxgg>they just bundle the flash
[00:03]<rrygn606>I was thinking maybe it would be possible to make a bundle with a dll and have the flash call functions in the dll...
[00:03]<rrygn606>dchen: So what you're saying is that basically my options are not good at creating an integrated bundle of flash and anything else?
[00:04]<maxgg>so you need a java-enabled web server that listens to something like localhost:specific_port
[00:04]<rrygn606>Gahhh
[00:04]<maxgg>running locally
[00:04]<rrygn606>Yeah, thats the approach we're doing now.
[00:04]<rrygn606>Was hoping to get rid of that.
[00:05]<maxgg>wow so half the time the game won't even work, unless you tell the user to make sure to unblock the port?
[00:05]<rrygn606>It really from that blog url that Arild pasted that you can embed flash in C#.
[00:05]<rrygn606>dchen: yep.
[00:05]<maxgg>caine607: so what are the paths you are considering?
[00:06]<rrygn606>dchen: Well the current path we are exploring is the "rewrite the flash GUI in java" path.
[00:06]<maxgg>i hear microsoft has WPE
[00:06]<rrygn606>WPE?
[00:06]<maxgg>but unless they have a bonafide 1.0 player for windows and mac, you are developing for a vaporware platform
[00:06]<rrygn606>dchen: But I'm here on #csharp to investigate the path of "embed the flash GUI inside a c# app" path.
[00:06]<maxgg>Windows Presentation (abridged to work across platforms)
[00:07]<rrygn606>Note, I keep forgetting the cross platform issue, so I rushed onto #csharp before considering that.
[00:07]<maxgg>(across platforms in Microsoft Speak doesn't necessarily include linux, Solaris, macintosh, etc etc.. it may just imply back porting to run on WinME)
[00:07]<maxgg>i see
[00:08]<rrygn606>dchen: Heh, yeah, I remember in 93 seeing an add for visual basic that claimed it was cross platform. win 3.1, winnt AND win98.
[00:08]<maxgg>it's not very pretty
[00:08]<maxgg>basically your best shot (to simply a bit) is a java background process (not a full fledged server) that
[00:08]<maxgg>not a full fledged windows service nor daemon
[00:08]<maxgg>that listens to a named pipe
[00:09]<maxgg>that way you bypass the usability problem of users having to open fucking localhost:blah_port
[00:09]<rrygn606>Gah.
[00:09]<rrygn606>It still isn't very attractive.
[00:09]<maxgg>users generally couldn't be bothered to understand the subtle problems with personal firewalls
[00:09]<cjmgrug>caine607: why not just put a flash activeX control on your form in C#? and load the swf into the control at runtime?
[00:09]<maxgg>but flash doesn't know how to talk to named pipes
[00:09]<maxgg>...
[00:09]<maxgg>yeah you are fucked :)
[00:10]<cjmgrug>?
[00:10]<rrygn606>CodeRun: is that what this i? http://www.flashfanatiker.de/blog/archives/000032.html
[00:10]<rrygn606>is
[00:10]<maxgg>yeah you could do that
[00:10]<rrygn606>CodeRun: Cause thats kinda what I was thinking. But what about running on Macs?
[00:10]<maxgg>and the nice thing about coderun's idea is that it runs Windows only
[00:10]<maxgg>so you have to let go of your mac port
[00:10]<rrygn606>Heh.
[00:10]<rrygn606>Unfort part of the market for this is edu and macs are real big in the edu market.
[00:11]<maxgg>coderun's idea is actually pretty decent in the flash 8 player because the events passing between the host app and flash has improved
[00:11]<cjmgrug>hmm, maybe you are right.. but i thought anything you do in c# is cross-platform unless you do some OS -specific stuff ...
[00:11]<maxgg>in mac space i think you can use a QuickTime control to open a flash movie embedded in a cocoa app
[00:11]<rrygn606>CodeRun: Uhm, isn't an activex control os specific?
[00:11]<rrygn606>Hrmm.
[00:11]<maxgg>but that support for flash might be in the darkages, like flash 4 movies only
[00:11]<cjmgrug>and plus, you have FSCOMMAND to talk to c# and vice versa
[00:12]<rrygn606>Aieee.
[00:12]<maxgg>activex/com is cross platform?
[00:12]<maxgg>yeah like i siad, i did some research and i was not happy with what i saw
[00:12]<maxgg>just giving you the straight goods
[00:12]<rrygn606>Cripes.
[00:12]<rrygn606>dchen: Thanks for the help
[00:12]<rrygn606>Arild: Thanks for the urls and the help as well.
[00:13]<rrygn606>CodeRun: THanks for the good intentions. ;-)
[00:13]<maxgg>good luck, time has a way of making things easier, my research was late last year
[00:13]<rrygn606>java has never really been that smooth in terms of packaging standalone apps or native compilation.
[00:13]<rrygn606>I got the impression that producing an installer/native code via C# was pretty easy, comparatively.
[00:14]<rrygn606>So I'd much rather just learn C# and port the java code to C#, instead of rewriting the flash GUI in java.
[00:14]<maxgg>and macromedia hasn't had a mandate to repurpose Flash to fight a very small war--the war of 2D independent game development
[00:14]<maxgg>so that's why the projector thingy has always been done by 3rd parties
[00:14]<rrygn606>For that matter I'd much rather just rewrite the flash GUI in C# but I suspect it won't be any easier than rewriting it in java.
[00:14]<maxgg>Macromedia just care about the web
[00:14]<maxgg>oh oh on ething
[00:14]<rrygn606>one thing?
[00:14]<maxgg>you can write this glue code once.. if you use Mozilla's gecko control
[00:15]<rrygn606>Come again?
[00:15]<maxgg>Mozilla has a consistent way of loading flash movies
[00:15]<maxgg>hosting flash movies
[00:15]<maxgg>and mozilla is on many platforms
[00:15]<maxgg>windows, mac, linux
[00:15]<rrygn606>Ah. But we don't want this thing to look like its in a browser.
[00:15]<maxgg>so if you can figure out how to load a Gecko control
[00:15]<rrygn606>Hmmmmmmmmm.
[00:15]<maxgg>you can interface the flash from within the gecko control

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