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[00:40]<rrygn606>Yeah, thats what this seems to be.
[00:40]<rrygn606>Or perhaps its not.
[00:40]<rrygn606>Did you look at it?
[00:40]<maxgg>it's not
[00:41]<maxgg>it's just the run-time VM and the compiler
[00:41]<rrygn606>Ahhh.
[00:41]<maxgg>not the .net framework foundation classes and all those other fun stuff
[00:41]<cxrfnm>The MONO Project may help you
[00:41]<maxgg>like.. .net 3.0 encompasses WPE, WP, and all that other stuff
[00:41]<maxgg>that's what microsoft spent billions yearly on
[00:41]<rrygn606>Ah.
[00:41]<maxgg>not sure if they are ready to give it away for sharesource :)
[00:42]<rrygn606>khaled: Are you overly familiar with Mono?
[00:42]<maxgg>try the gimp.net or gnome.net
[00:42]<maxgg>there's a really big #mono channel there
[00:42]<cxrfnm>caine607, i am one of the library developer for mono
[00:42]<cxrfnm>so i am sorta ok
[00:43]<rrygn606>khaled: Can you tell me, does mono support all of the packaging and such? I.e. can I take a c# program and use the mono environment to create an installer, etc, so I can then had a CDROM to an end user, they double click an icon and it installs the app via a wizard, and then they just go to their menu and click on the app and it runs?
[00:44]<cxrfnm>caine607, it depends on which libraries you use and if your app does interop with os dependent libraries
[00:44]<cxrfnm>System.Windows.Forms is under heavy development in mono..
[00:45]<cxrfnm>so GUI apps might know look that attractive
[00:45]<cxrfnm>on the other hand, if you use mono to develop your app, you can pretty much assume that it will work on Windows, Linux and Mac
[00:46]<rrygn606>khaled: The GUI is in flash.
[00:46]<cxrfnm>oh
[00:46]<rrygn606>khaled: The goal is to be able to NOT rewrite the flash GUI.
[00:46]<rrygn606>khaled: Just have it run under c#.
[00:46]<rrygn606>khaled: On macs and on windows.
[00:46]<cxrfnm>flash runs pretty well on a browser
[00:46]<cxrfnm>why do you want a container ?
[00:47]<rrygn606>khaled: Because we don't want it on a browser?
[00:47]<maxgg>khaled: they don't want the browser dressing
[00:47]<rrygn606>khaled: Because they want it to be a standalone game.
[00:47]<cxrfnm>ah
[00:47]<maxgg>the browser GUI elements
[00:47]<ymuggjtntnt>flash under C# would be nice.. would work on 64bit then :P
[00:47]<maxgg>it's full screen app or when not full screen, only show the GUI of the flash app
[00:48]<maxgg>khaled: you present a legit point thoug
[00:48]<maxgg>you can modify the browser to disable some of the GUI elements
[00:48]<maxgg>like the toolbar, menu, etc
[00:48]<rrygn606>dchen: Heh. Wotta concept.
[00:48]<cxrfnm>i am not sure if there is wrapper for flash player under linux
[00:48]<ymuggjtntnt>you can embed IE without the GUI stuff
[00:48]<rrygn606>dchen: grab firefox source, hack it to get rid of the toolbars and menus, then wrap it aroudn the game.
[00:48]<ymuggjtntnt>look at Steam, they embed IE in their news
[00:48]<cxrfnm>but i think there is a wrapper for mozilla
[00:48]<maxgg>but the main problem i would worry about still, is which app steals the input
[00:48]<cxrfnm>you can probably use the mozilla wrapper to do this
[00:48]<maxgg>you don't want this situation where the browser window steals the events
[00:49]<ymuggjtntnt>yeah or you can embed gecko if you want
[00:49]<maxgg>you want flash to grab all the keyboard/mouse events
[00:49]<rrygn606>mozilla wrapper? Is that the gecko control?
[00:49]<ymuggjtntnt>http://www.mono-project.com/GeckoSharp
[00:49]<maxgg>caine607: i think you can just grab gecko
[00:49]<ymuggjtntnt>yeah but then you will need to use Gtk+
[00:49]<maxgg>it would have everything you need, none that you don't
[00:49]<rrygn606>Aieee.
[00:49]<ymuggjtntnt>errr Gtk#
[00:50]<maxgg>you can bundle Gtk+ safely right?
[00:50]<maxgg>without rendering the game GPL
[00:50]<cxrfnm>yes.. Gtk# is pretty stable
[00:50]<ymuggjtntnt>I think Gtk is LGPL not GPL, one sec
[00:50]<cxrfnm>oh licensing
[00:50]<ymuggjtntnt>Gtk+ is LGPL so yes you can bundle it
[00:50]<maxgg>yeah you also have to respect whatever licensing is associated with gecko
[00:50]<maxgg>but you aren't linking to it
[00:50]<maxgg>you just run it to host your app
[00:50]<ymuggjtntnt>and Gecko probably uses the mozilla license
[00:51]<rrygn606>ok. soooooo.
[00:51]<maxgg>like using ms word to open a doc
[00:51]<cxrfnm>is not there a standalone flash player ?
[00:51]<rrygn606>So, I use mono, and geckosharp, and that gets me...
[00:51]<cxrfnm>at least for windows?
[00:51]<rrygn606>khaled: Yes there is, but this thing also has a buncha java code.
[00:51]<ymuggjtntnt>although it might be more tricky to use gecko since you'll need to bundle a mozilla flash plugin too
[00:51]<rrygn606>khaled: Which I would port to c#.
[00:52]<maxgg>man just to get flash to run as an EXE
[00:52]<maxgg>it's so fucking hard
[00:52]<ymuggjtntnt>Dude just embed IE without all the GUI stuff, problem solved
[00:52]<cxrfnm>yes
[00:52]<maxgg>that's why microsoft will steamroll over macromedia/adobe
[00:52]<rrygn606>idunno59595: Need mac.
[00:52]<maxgg>it's so going to happen
[00:52]<cxrfnm>i would not do it for a commercial app
[00:52]<rrygn606>idunno59595: need it to run on mac.
[00:52]<ymuggjtntnt>OH on a bloody mac?
[00:52]<rrygn606>idunno59595: And windows.
[00:52]<ymuggjtntnt>ok then just embed Gecko#....
[00:53]<rrygn606>khaled: OK, so.... mono, gecko#, then I need the mozilla flash plugin as well, right?
[00:53]<cxrfnm>caine607, you may contact Zbowling @ #mono in irc.gimp.net
[00:53]<maxgg>so let's talk microsoft technology
[00:53]<rrygn606>khaled: THanks.
[00:53]<cxrfnm>i think he is working on the mozilla wrappers
[00:53]<maxgg>if say caine607 used Windows Presentation, all that fun vector stuff, using microsoft's cool design tools that aren't even released yet
[00:53]<maxgg>is it going to be easy to host it in a c# app?
[00:54]<maxgg>is it going to be prototypable like in flash?
[00:54]<cxrfnm>you mean under Mono ?
[00:54]<maxgg>anyone?
[00:54]<maxgg>no, under windows
[00:54]<maxgg>only windows
[00:55]<rrygn606>br

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