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[16:17]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: I'll also give you a hint - afaik, most of .NET uses UTF-16
[16:18]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: But I'm not sure if mono uses UTF-16.
[16:18]<txnjzd>unicode needed inventing?
[16:18]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: Evidently.
[16:19]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: And Unicode support is still pathetic :( Heck, unicode doesn't work in most Linux distros by _default_, especially not on the console, and other OS's, such as obsd, don't support it on the console *at all*.
[16:19]<rzrprrryjr>Which encoding does mono use, btw?
[16:29]<txnjzd>that article is interesting in the way it calls DBCS "messy" and UTF "brilliant"
[16:29]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: I think most of Joel's writing is interesting, if a tad arrogant.
[16:31]<mzbyff>how can i let ndoc document the apps vars?
[16:31]<wr2e>so it turns out UTF7 was the right thing to use
[16:31]<mzbyff>sorry 4 my bad english ?!?!?
[16:31]<rzrprrryjr>MrBill: '4' isn't even english.
[16:31]<wr2e>im glad it wasnt utf-16 because mono doesnt seem to support that at all
[16:31]<mzbyff>jes for
[16:32]<mzbyff>yes...lol
[16:32]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: How'd you arrive at that conclusion?
[16:32]<mzbyff>no idea?
[16:33]<wr2e>Arafangion: this network protocol is not documented, but uhh... utf7 works
[16:33]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: Why are you using a non-documented network protocol?
[16:33]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: That's just... stupid.
[16:33]<wr2e>www.browseforspeed.net
[16:33]<wr2e>im working with one
[16:35]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: If you use UTF7, and another developer uses a different type of UTF7, or UTF8, you'll have trouble. FIND OUT EXACTLY what encoding it is using.
[16:36]<wr2e>okay.
[16:36]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: In the Linux world, UTF8 and UTF32 are very popular. Windows uses UTF16 alot.
[16:36]<wr2e>the app that does all this is a windows app
[16:37]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: By default, .NET uses UTF-16
[16:37]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: Perhaps they've done something stupid with their network protocol, or otherwise. In any case, it really needs to be documented.
[16:37]<mzbyff>which tags must i use in the c# code to let ndoc document the application variables? has someone any idea?
[16:37]<wr2e>okay - but im just developing this app in .NET - it's a server rbowser for a game. the game is not in .NET
[16:38]<rzrprrryjr>wabz: If you're very keen on that project, I suggest you document the protocol.
[16:42]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: Why is it that everybody has no <censored> clue about encoding?
[16:43]<wr2e>cant answer that...it's obviously important
[16:44]<wr2e>anyway thanks for linking to that document. ill talk to the devs of the game (theyre very approachable which is awesome), and try to get the protocol documented
[16:48]<txnjzd>Arafangion: people expect to to just work. and to be fair, it should
[16:50]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: To be fair, how can _anything_ just "work" if one is doing bit-level manipulations without understandign the encoding?
[16:50]<txnjzd>most people who run into problems with encoding aren't doing bit level manipulations
[16:50]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: wabz was trying to manipulate them as 8-bit sequences.
[16:51]<txnjzd>I never saw anything suggesting he cared they were 8 bit sequences or not
[16:51]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: There's no way in hell one can get », and zillions of other unusual characters in a single 8-bit bytes.
[16:51]<rzrprrryjr>*byte
[16:52]<txnjzd>indeed there is not, but who cares about bytes? what people want to do is transmit strings over the net or store them
[16:52]<txnjzd>how this is done is something I at least would rather not have to care about
[16:53]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: Yet wabz was sending them as bytes.
[16:53]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: Many people treat them as just bytes.
[16:53]<txnjzd>he was sending them as bytes because network sockets don't accept chars
[16:54]<rzrprrryjr>qed.
[16:54]<txnjzd>which sucks
[16:54]<rzrprrryjr>Does, abit, actually.
[16:55]<rzrprrryjr>I really like C++ iostream.
[16:56]<txnjzd>they are nice things
[16:56]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: I'm not sure what it is that I like about C++.
[16:56]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: I think it's because it can be considered to be a superset of nearly all C-derived languages.
[16:56]<rzrprrryjr>It's certainly a superset of Java.
[16:59]<txnjzd>it combines the power, elegance and warts of HLLs with the power, elegence and warts of C :-)
[17:00]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: C is not elagent.
[17:01]<txnjzd>I disagree, certain problems can be solved very elegantly in C
[17:01]<rzrprrryjr>Such as?
[17:01]<txnjzd>bit level manipulation
[17:02]<txnjzd>any problem where you want to look at a chunk of memory as just a chunk of memory
[17:03]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: imho, C sucks even for bit level manipulation.
[17:03]<rzrprrryjr>Theory: Perl, even has 0b10101 number formats, and it's a *string* language.
[17:04]<rzrprrryjr>But, you're correct, C, at least, is decent if you need to manipulate all the memory as a somewhat linear mess of bytes.
[17:22]<zzcn>Hi.
[17:22]<sdnffdxdlld>lo arke ^_^
[17:22]<zzcn><3
[17:22]<zzcn>Ok question
[17:23]<zzcn>suppose i have a delegate
[17:23]<zzcn>in a class
[17:23]<zzcn>how can i make sure that its access to the class is thread safe?
[17:23]<sdnffdxdlld>use lock(object){}
[17:23]<sdnffdxdlld>SpikeLite msdn lock
[17:23]<slycnlyvn>smellyhippy, lock Statement (C#): http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/c5kehkcz.aspx
[17:24]<sdnffdxdlld>I gotta grab a shower bbiab
[17:24]<zzcn>Thanks
[17:24]<sdnffdxdlld>lol btw its a little more complex than just using lock() ;) but thats what you need ... just read up on it ^_^
[17:24]<zzcn>I was afraid of that :P
[17:33]<rzrprrryjr>How the hell did I code so badly? :(
[17:33]<rzrprrryjr>Even I can't understand it!
[17:49]<sdnffdxdlld>I've found the oposite ... my old code was much easier to follow because I was doing things very simply. Now I have to make sure I sprinkle with liberal comments otherwise I end up confusing myself with what I've done lol
[17:50]<rzrprrryjr>My code is becomming cleaner and simpler as I become a better coder.
[17:50]<rzrprrryjr>It's unforutnate that you are in the opposite direction :)
[17:53]<sdnffdxdlld>nahhh its not unfortunate ... if my code wasnt becoming more complex then I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing ;)
[17:53]<rzrprrryjr>Which is?
[17:53]<sdnffdxdlld>its not bad/dirty code ... just large and complex
[17:53]<sdnffdxdlld>at the moment making a reflection absed DAL
[17:53]<rzrprrryjr>Ahh, well, that's different.
[17:53]<rzrprrryjr>My old code is really obscure, poorly documented, and absolutely inconsistent, and far too tightly coupled.
[17:54]<sdnffdxdlld>ahhhh I've always coded clearly with decent comments where needed ... I've only ever coded OO stuff and unlike the rest of my life I seem a little obsessive over the layout of my code and projects
[17:54]<sdnffdxdlld>everything else in my life is messy as hell lol
[17:55]<rzrprrryjr>This is the _first_ program I've really written.
[17:55]<rzrprrryjr>Once I've ripped the junk out, it'll be a 3000 line python program.
[17:55]<rzrprrryjr>And it's _very_ dense code :)
[17:56]<sdnffdxdlld>hehe :)
[17:56]<sdnffdxdlld>well i gotta dash again
[17:56]<sdnffdxdlld>cya dude ^_^
[17:56]<rzrprrryjr>Cya :)
[18:06]<isnnisnn>anyone ?
[18:06]<rzrprrryjr>IseeIsee: Anyone?

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