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[06:25]<kjr>Static, not necessarily
[06:25]<cjmgrug>i guess what they meant by 'calm' is administrative apps etc..
[06:25]<kjr>AnarkiNet, erm...
[06:26]<kjr>CodeRun, I understand what was being said... I just think that anyone who uses such terminology fails at understanding the question ;)
[06:26]<zgzzcygnv>if you suck at logic and design, ASM isnt going to help your program be faster
[06:26]<kjr>AnarkiNet, there's inherent overhead to various languages
[06:26]<cjmgrug>hmm, true
[06:26]<kjr>so it's not the case that an elegent solution in language x is fast
[06:27]<kjr>it may be legible, and the developer time may be minimized
[06:27]<kjr>but runtime is another question
[06:27]<kjr>if you're arguing human optomization vs. machine... there's definately a chance that it can swing either way - but usually the machines are better
[06:27]<kjr>(unless you're using one of those toy obfuscators)
[06:28]<kjr>CodeRun, you know: my roommate wrote a 3d engine in Java - something everyone thought it was "too slow" for. Apparently not
[06:28]<cjmgrug>does toy obfuscators include Xenocode , Kog ?
[06:28]<kjr>CodeRun, it was cross-platform too, using JOGL I think
[06:28]<zgzzcygnv>Runescape is written in Java
[06:28]<zgzzcygnv>it's slow.
[06:28]<cjmgrug>i see, Kog.
[06:29]<zgzzcygnv>and they've been working on it for like 7 years or something
[06:29]<kjr>AnarkiNet, would you say Runescape is the paradigm of well written software...?
[06:29]<zgzzcygnv>yes
[06:29]<zgzzcygnv>i would, actually
[06:29]<zgzzcygnv>well, i havent seen the source code
[06:29]<kjr>then how can you qualify that?
[06:29]<cjmgrug>limewire too is written in java..
[06:29]<zgzzcygnv>because of the whole system
[06:29]<kjr>CodeRun, so is Azareus
[06:30]<cjmgrug>hmm, i've never used azureus, so i dont know..
[06:30]<zgzzcygnv>runescape has a slick auto updating system, an apparently easily exensible "world", handles huge amounts of players at once...etc
[06:30]<kjr>CodeRun, although, people keep whining that Azareus is slow - I was running it on a box w/ 256mb of ram just fine
[06:30]<kjr>AnarkiNet, so it's well designed - not necessarily well written
[06:31]<kjr>AnarkiNet, Secondlife is similar - and I wouldn't necessarily say it's well written
[06:31]<kjr>it IS impressive though, regardless
[06:31]<zgzzcygnv>heh, there should be ASM.NET
[06:32]<zgzzcygnv>or an ASM -> MSIL translator
[06:32]<cjmgrug>so, the ultimate point you're saying is : that if apps which require lots of resources in short time intervals, and which can be classified as CPU and Memory intenside, are written and designed smartly in c#, then we wouldnt see a noticible performance lag. Right?
[06:33]<svrvya>i think c# would be god for game programming, there are a lot of c# game engines out there
[06:33]<zgzzcygnv>yes
[06:33]<cjmgrug>intensive*
[06:33]<svrvya>i mean just read this http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/01/07/ctocsharp/default.aspx
[06:33]<svrvya>its like chaning
[06:33]<svrvya>the future is .NET
[06:33]<kjr>CodeRun, there's also another point to be made - machines get faster, and optomizing gets better daily
[06:34]<kjr>CodeRun, the big push right now is a tradeoff of developer time vs. computation time... developer time is currently (generally) winning heh
[06:34]<cjmgrug>right.
[06:35]<kjr>anyway... stuff like the heavy graphics is going to be coming direct from the OS eventually anyway
[06:35]<kjr>and offloaded straight out onto specialized procs/ram sets
[06:35]<svrvya>does opengl and directx support c#?
[06:35]<svrvya>just wanna know how deep c# is
[06:36]<kjr>about 5 fathoms
[06:36]<kjr>Static, there's a managed directx
[06:36]<kjr>Static, you really should take up the usage of google... it's a marvelous tool
[06:36]<svrvya>what is managed and unmanenged? they say c__ is unmananged and c# is managed
[06:37]<svrvya>ok
[06:37]<svrvya>i think im gonan stick with c++, i think i'll benefit from it
[06:37]<svrvya>thanks all
[06:37]<svrvya>i'll start learning in the morning
[06:37]<zgzzcygnv>...
[06:37]<zgzzcygnv>C++ is so fucking ugly
[06:38]<kjr>AnarkiNet, most of the gaming industry uses it, and if you're any good w/ C++ you can probably learn to use C#
[06:38]<zgzzcygnv>lpCZtrstr *kejwkje = @tj3ioije;
[06:38]<zgzzcygnv>thats what C++ code looks like to me
[06:38]<svrvya>ye ai don't like c++
[06:38]<cjmgrug>going from c++ --> c# is MUCH easier than going from c#-->c++ (or atleast knowing the benefits of c# ) :p
[06:39]<kjr>CodeRun, although, one can only wonder for how long that's going to be true... they keep throwing more shit into C# each iteration
[06:39]<svrvya>well, im going to study c# because they are teaching it in CS cources in college :)
[06:39]<kjr>Static, the secret to programming isn't knowing a language... it's knowing how to program
[06:39]<svrvya>yes
[06:39]<kjr>which sounds absolutely stupid, but it's surprisingly underappreciated
[06:41]<zgzzcygnv>its why learning a little bit of ASM will help you a lot with other language, even if you never write a line of ASM in your life
[06:41]<zgzzcygnv>because when you learn ASM, you also learn *how* lots of those "magic" things happen
[06:41]<svrvya>i have ASM..that assembly right? the hardware progrmaming langauge, the shitnto progrma computer chips and shit
[06:42]<svrvya>it's too hard
[06:42]<svrvya>or too much to learn
[06:42]<kjr>there's a reason most people don't still write in it...
[06:42]<zgzzcygnv>yes
[06:44]<kjr>bbl, comida
[06:44]<cjmgrug>i learnt assembly a few years back when i was crazy about reverse engineering..
[06:45]<cjmgrug>http://blogs.tedneward.com/2005/09/22/Language+Innovation+C+30+Explained.aspx << check out 'object initialisers'.. thats insane!
[06:48]<azyfm>CodeRun: Insane? Other languages have had that for a long time
[06:50]<cjmgrug>and, you say its a 'desired feature' ?
[06:50]<azyfm>yup
[07:56]<czlvzyrmjzrzr>these terms are messing me up.. when an object is created - what can be used to initialize it? constructor?
[07:58]<cjmgrug>ok... CaptainMorgan, here's a piece of advice. Get a good C# fundamentals book.
[07:59]<czlvzyrmjzrzr>got one - that's why Im messed up
[07:59]<cjmgrug>then get another one. And if you're still messed up, get yet another one.
[08:00]<czlvzyrmjzrzr>is it a constructor?
[08:00]<cjmgrug>foreach( step s in gettingBetterInProgramming ) { readALot();}
[08:01]<czlvzyrmjzrzr>foreach(steps in going InSane) {take breaks from reading();}
[08:02]<cjmgrug>also, realise that google and msdn are here for you, to help you with anything you're stuck with. And a constructor is a special class method to initialise identifiers of an object of that class.
[08:07]<czlvzyrmjzrzr>thanks, but what most folks don't realize is that irc is some people's last resort...
[08:12]<kjr>ah, the pirate himself
[08:14]<czlvzyrmjzrzr>argghh
[08:14]<kjr>they're really not that complicated
[08:14]<kjr>the problem is generally that most people are really terrible at explanation
[08:15]<kjr>an Object is an instance of a class
[08:16]<kjr>when you construct an object, you create an instance of a class
[08:16]<kjr>at least.. in C#
[08:16]<cjmgrug>and c++
[08:16]<kjr>so you're instantiating

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