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[12:09]<mjzymygo>looks about 10 years old according to php.net
[12:09]<kjr>rioter: I most sincerely doubt that
[12:09]<kjr>considering that HTML itself was late 94
[12:09]<mjzymygo>http://uk2.php.net/manual/en/history.php
[12:10]<zyccus>Kog: I remember a job wanting 5 years of win2k experience... in 2000
[12:10]<zyjvnz>Kog i was a year off, it was 1995
[12:10]<kjr>you'd think HR people would be a little better at hiring people... that IS what they do for a living
[12:10]<kjr>rioter: if you believe that nonsense, sure
[12:11]<kjr>I go w/ 97
[12:11]<kjr>rioter: but do you actually know anyone who's been using PHP since 95?
[12:12]<rwyfcygs>I think people were just barely using HTML in the main
[12:12]<rwyfcygs>I can't remember anything but CGI in '95
[12:12]<zyjvnz>nope, there are a couple of guys on ##php that have been using it for a very long time though
[12:13]<mjzymygo>rikkus: I was once refused an interview from a SQL Developer contract because I only had 3 years experience of SQL-Server 2000 and they wanted 4 years... shame it was only 2002
[12:13]<kjr>awilkins: heh, I don't think I was even using CGI in 95
[12:13]<rwyfcygs>Kog: I don't remember coding in it : I remember web pages based on it
[12:14]<mjzymygo>yeh, CGI was the used in the realm of C and Perl only back then...
[12:14]<kjr>oh, I was using CGI until 98
[12:14]<kjr>when I found php3
[12:14]<mjzymygo>and still used it ;)
[12:14]<kjr>that was probably the first SQL I wrote too haha
[12:14]<mjzymygo>(via nice wrappers)
[12:14]<kjr>Moridin8: yeah, but back then CGI generally meant "perl"
[12:15]<mjzymygo>yeh I know.
[12:15]<kjr>Moridin8: you were the shit if you could get a free "cgi-bin" ;)
[12:15]<kjr>what was it... crosswinds?
[12:15]<mjzymygo>agent: "do you know how to program in CGI"... erm what?
[12:15]<kjr>I hope those fuckers burnt to the ground
[12:15]<kjr>Moridin8: I've got an acquaintance that still writes CGI in C for some reason
[12:15]<rwyfcygs>Freak
[12:16]<kjr>there's another who seems to use Haskell... I always thought that was interesting
[12:16]<rwyfcygs>I played with Eiffel for about 10 seconds recently
[12:16]<mjzymygo>I was happy to move away from C after leaving Uni... ASP had only just become viable and PHP usable
[12:17]<rwyfcygs>One of the more prominent open healthcare software frameworks uses Eiffel because one of its lead devs is an Eiffel freak
[12:17]<kjr>as opposed to ASP "classic" which never became viable or usable
[12:17]<kjr>awilkins: and that makes it the only app to date written in Eiffel ;)
[12:17]<mjzymygo>I started with version 2 properly...
[12:18]<rwyfcygs>I coded some quite convoluted display logic in vbscript ASP pages
[12:18]<mjzymygo>awilkins... I hated the asp/html cludge
[12:18]<rwyfcygs>Oh yes, it was sucky
[12:18]<mjzymygo>just as I hated the php/html cludge
[12:18]<rwyfcygs>I even resorted to passing the Reponse object to a VB DLL at points
[12:18]<mjzymygo>I tried as much as possible to use templates
[12:19]<mjzymygo>awilkins: I tried to do that too...
[12:19]<mjzymygo>(although I didn't pass the response object, I let it find it's own context on IIS ;)...)
[12:19]<rwyfcygs>This was a binary backend that rendered an abstract opage XML from data and then a VBScript that rendered it to a table.
[12:20]<kjr>oh sweet, here's a great req: "Developer/C#C++"
[12:20]<rwyfcygs>I wish I'd kept some of the HTML, it would look nice on my CV
[12:20]<rwyfcygs>Kog
[12:20]<rwyfcygs>Ahahahaa
[12:20]<mjzymygo>kog: wtf?
[12:21]<rwyfcygs>C++ is just a world away from C#
[12:21]<kjr>oh sweet, it's a senior C#C++ developer too
[12:21]<kjr>with managerial pudding!
[12:21]<rwyfcygs>I still don't get all the funny operators in C++ (never written any in anger)
[12:21]<rwyfcygs>Ugh, the thought of doing management tasks puts me off applying for jobs like that.
[12:22]<rwyfcygs>OTOH, it might be nice to have a say in how things are f**ked up.
[12:22]<rwyfcygs>You can puff out your chest, look at the smoking debris that remains of your project and say "*I* ruined this project."
[12:23]<rwyfcygs>Yeah, I have no investment at all in making things lkook pretty
[12:23]<kjr>at what point in time are you developing when you've got your silly little Photoshop window open
[12:23]<kjr>the only thing you're developing is a fucking case of carpal tunnel
[12:23]<kjr>and that's a big maybe, at best
[12:23]<mjzymygo>in the UK, Derby and Nottinghamshire companies are really trying to get c# developers... but they ain't paying what they should so it's alwatys the same jobs advertised... dumb dumb dumb
[12:24]<vxznrmw>Moridin8, what should they pay?
[12:24]<rwyfcygs>That's the problem with web jobs ; they expect a good developer to make things look pretty.
[12:24]<vxznrmw>and what are they offering?
[12:24]<mjzymygo>threadw: what they should: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/.net%20programmer.do
[12:24]<kjr>oh shnap, it's a pyramid scheme!
[12:24]<kjr>a pretty snazzy one too
[12:25]<mjzymygo>what they are: http://www.jobserve.com/WF9C413B6CF705047.job
[12:25]<mjzymygo>Leicester is worse: http://www.jobserve.com/W0D6AB3880B468021.job
[12:25]<rwyfcygs>What's the little weather icons for?
[12:25]<kjr>oh, another great one: "Microsoft SQL Server experience with tables"
[12:25]<vxznrmw>hehe
[12:25]<kjr>OH SHIT! WITH TABLES!
[12:25]<mjzymygo>kog: website URL?
[12:25]<kjr>what the fuck ELSE are you doing with it...
[12:25]<kjr>Moridin8: CL
[12:25]<vxznrmw>im unfortunate to have found a place where vb.net is the preferred language :(
[12:26]<vxznrmw>but being without education, i can't really demand much :P
[12:26]<rwyfcygs>Kog: How about that strange XXX DailyWTF
[12:26]<rwyfcygs>Manchester average C# wage £36k
[12:26]<kjr>awilkins: hm
[12:26]<rwyfcygs>No, not "XXX" porn, that silly table full of Xs
[12:26]<kjr>awilkins: yes
[12:28]<rwyfcygs>I actually submitted an idea to that "Cambrian house" thing they link to on the fronit page.
[12:28]<vxznrmw>i work for £18674.48/year
[12:28]<rwyfcygs>Since I think it's a pretty good idea, maybe I'll get some cashola out of it
[12:28]<vxznrmw>heh
[12:28]<rwyfcygs>In about 5 years or so
[12:28]<rwyfcygs>Maybe
[12:28]<rwyfcygs>If they don't screw me over.
[12:30]<kjr>threadw: I'll trade you
[12:30]<kjr>oh hey, people already want me to be writing in PHP6, that's cute
[12:30]<vxznrmw>hehe
[12:30]<kjr>maybe I should inform them that it only adds unicode...
[12:30]<vxznrmw>im only keeping this job until april
[12:30]<kjr>so sorry, GOTO has been removed...
[12:30]<vxznrmw>so i'll manage
[12:30]<vxznrmw>hehe

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