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[11:03]<d0`>anything else you need?
[11:03]<d0`>I need to go to bed :)
[11:03]<d0`>its 4:01 :)
[11:04]<rtdfyrrf>1:01 here.
[11:04]<cjmgrug>and there is something else, that stops me from does that, m0`. It just that if i open Run, and i type 'c' (it freezes for like 1 second) and then i type ':' (freezes for another second).. but its smooth after 4 or 5 freezes. very irritating. (i suspect the idiotic indexing service) :)
[11:04]<y-gz>and it even runs
[11:04]<cjmgrug>:( *
[11:04]<y-gz>lol
[11:07]<zgzzcygnv>CodeRun, turn it off then
[11:08]<cjmgrug>i turned it off last time, was 'uncomfortable' for some reason i dont remember :p
[11:10]<y-gz>m0`: go have some sleep thanks for the help ;)
[11:16]<fzzznz>I just used xenocode to build a standalone executable that supposedly doesn't require .net framework to run and I ended up with only 200 KB executable. is there any way to by temporarily disable .net framework to test this program?
[11:20]<zgzzcygnv>yes
[11:21]<zgzzcygnv>use Microsoft Virtual PC 2004
[11:21]<zgzzcygnv>and install a fresh copy of some windows OS on it
[11:21]<zgzzcygnv>use that to test your stuff in
[11:21]<zyccus>indeed - it's free now
[11:21]<zyccus>and Windows' license allows you to do that
[11:21]<zgzzcygnv>yep
[11:21]<zyccus>so no excuses anymore :}
[11:21]<zgzzcygnv>and its extremely fricking easy to use, too
[11:22]<zyccus>shame it doesn't have vmware workstation's multiple snapshot feature - then it'd be perfect for testing
[11:23]<fzzznz>does 200 KB seem realistic? it's a simple irc client that's using few forms and sockets
[11:23]<zgzzcygnv>yes
[11:23]<cjmgrug>i thought the 'dotnetfx.exe' itself is 25 MB or something
[11:24]<y-gz>mono has mkbundle :)
[11:24]<y-gz>creates a native executable with bundled stuff in it
[11:24]<y-gz>the runtime + required libs
[11:24]<y-gz>:)
[11:24]<zyccus>nice
[11:24]<fzzznz>i-nZ how big would a program like that end up with mkbundle
[11:24]<fzzznz>aprox.
[11:25]<y-gz>I have no clue. Never used it myself.
[11:25]<zyccus>laager: mono doesn't do windows.forms (properly)
[11:26]<mracn>how can I grab a screenshot of the clientarea of my control?
[11:26]<mracn>I tried this: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/fw1kt6f9.aspx
[11:26]<mracn>but I keep getting whatever is behind the control (ie, windows behind, not controls), not the control itself
[11:27]<y-gz>great
[11:27]<y-gz>mkbundle even compresses :)
[11:27]<y-gz>5mb
[11:27]<fzzznz>xenocode can do that too
[11:27]<y-gz>and that's everything required to run it
[11:27]<y-gz>no .net required, no assemblies nothing
[11:27]<y-gz>:)
[11:27]<fzzznz>you end up with 5MB executable?
[11:27]<y-gz>yes
[11:27]<y-gz>but i doubt one can fit the whole runtime in 200kb
[11:28]<fzzznz>well it doesn't need the whole runtime, only parts that it's using
[11:28]<y-gz>it doesn't need the whole class library
[11:28]<y-gz>but the runtime it does
[11:29]<mracn>mkbundle is linux only????
[11:29]<fzzznz>maybe it compiles code directly to executable rather than running it on .net runtime
[11:29]<mracn>wtf, my ?-key got stuck
[11:29]<y-gz>probably :)
[11:29]<y-gz>well not really
[11:30]<y-gz>i guess you can use it thtough cygwin
[11:30]<mracn>I tried xenocode before, but it barely worked for Hello World-style apps, let alone any production code
[11:31]<lyzxvxzddnz>AnarkiNet : does the Wirtual PC Work OK ?
[11:36]<cjmgrug>damn this connection
[11:36]<cjmgrug>did i miss a reply?
[11:38]<zyccus>CodeRun: did you ask a question?
[11:40]<cjmgrug>"but then, what if the framework needs critical updates or something?" //regarding using tools like Xenocode and mkbundle to bind make a complete self-sufficient executable which
[11:40]<cjmgrug>-which
[11:40]<zyccus>tough luck, I think
[11:40]<zyccus>(btw your question didn't appear earlier - must have been lost)
[11:41]<cjmgrug>-bind :p
[11:41]<cjmgrug>hmm
[11:42]<y-gz>Macke: the mono tool should be quite stable, since it statically links the runtime and embeds the assemblies. Not an ugly hack as most such ms .net tools
[11:43]<lyzxvxzddnz>any1 know of a link to all Namespace classes represented in a diagram format ?
[11:46]<rwyfcygs>rikkus : It should work if you set Project Compatibility in the dependancy project
[11:48]<zyccus>awilkins: will try that, thanks
[11:48]<rwyfcygs>PC just preserves the TypeLibID (off the top of my head)
[11:49]<rwyfcygs>BC preserves the InterfaceIDs and the method signatures too
[11:50]<mracn>i-nZ: I'll have to look into it. I think it's pretty silly of Microsoft not to provide a linker though, even an unofficial one.
[11:50]<zyccus>this big group I'm looking at has always been built with BC for no apparent reason
[11:50]<y-gz>well they do have ngen2
[11:50]<y-gz>:)
[11:50]<rwyfcygs>If the components are in use, BC is a good thing
[11:50]<mracn>ngen just precompiles the binaries, no? It doesn't actually link, or did I miss something? =)
[11:50]<zyccus>awilkins: the components are only used by the main exe
[11:50]<rwyfcygs>Mixed benefits then
[11:51]<rwyfcygs>BC will make it harder for you to refactor the components.
[11:51]<zyccus>I don't see a benefit of it for this app
[11:52]<rwyfcygs>But you might want to get "Registry Cleaner" on the case once in a while to clean out the resgitry drek that accumulates on a VB6 dev system
[11:52]<zyccus>mind you, the whole thing needs burning :}
[11:52]<zyccus>don't remind me - I've just had to install VB6 on my shiny new system
[11:52]<zyccus>feels dirty already
[11:53]<rwyfcygs>I have an uncommon understanding of the way COM component information is stored in the registry ; I wrote our custom VB6 build application
[11:53]<zyccus>I wrote an nant script to build this thing
[11:54]<rwyfcygs>Yeah, there's some reasonable NAnt support now
[11:54]<zyccus>previously it took far too many mouse clicks, closing/reopening vb, deleting files...
[11:54]<rwyfcygs>I even saw some stuff that can rewire dependancies based on BC ; a feature I wrote into Bob (the Builder).
[11:54]<rwyfcygs>Bob just eats textfiles and spits VB binaries
[11:55]<rwyfcygs>But it also rewrites .vbp files to fix up Binary Compatibility chains
[11:55]<zyccus>I wasn't sure what was actually needed - so I just set up the build the way this is built normally - build each dll, then set BC on (with its own DLL) and build it again
[11:55]<rwyfcygs>But I saw some (rather complex) Nant scripts that do that too
[11:56]<rwyfcygs>Make sure your install routine un-registers the old components if you are changing BC a lot.
[11:57]<zyccus>it uses an installshield (old style) installer... but for upgrades, an app which I wrote

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