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[23:33]<rxrcr>yeah those guys are nuts
[23:35]<zgzzcygnv>holy fsking shit check out the Lair game
[23:36]<sxrmmr>ugh I knew it
[23:36]<sxrmmr>my balls jumped 3 feet into my torso, I knew some one had brought up directX
[23:36]<xylxjzys>what's wrong with directx?
[23:36]<rxrcr>3 feet would be more along the lines of the neck area
[23:37]<sxrmmr>the supreme lack of documentation, Xiphoris
[23:38]<rxrcr>compared to what, opengl?
[23:39]<xylxjzys>yeah I don't see how it has a lack of documentation
[23:40]<xylxjzys>it seems like every class and such is ..
[23:40]<sxrmmr>for .net 2.0, it's very lacking
[23:40]<xylxjzys>I haven't worked with it a lot, though
[23:40]<sxrmmr>They remodeled a lot for 2.0
[23:43]<pz2>ok, someone gave me some links to really good C# 2.0 books, but I've lost them
[23:43]<pz2>anyone have recommendations?
[23:43]<sxrmmr>Core C# and .NET 2.0 is my reccomendation
[23:43]<sxrmmr>love that book
[23:43]<xylxjzys>Programming .NET Components is the best .NET book I've read :)
[23:44]<xylxjzys>that's not for newbies though
[23:45]<xylxjzys>frb: if you have previous programming experience I doubt you need a book
[23:45]<xylxjzys>C# isn't revolutionary or anything
[23:45]<pz2>we like to have books around
[23:45]<sxrmmr>nah but it does have its floibles
[23:45]<sxrmmr>things that need to be explained to you like you're a six year old, sometimes
[23:45]<pz2>I much prefer hardcopy references to hitting alt-tab when programming
[23:45]<xylxjzys>frb: .. you don't have 2 monitors? :P
[23:45]<xylxjzys>wow, I'd think development would be impossible without at least 2 monitors now
[23:45]<sxrmmr>pssh who needs two monitors when you have *THIS* bad boy
[23:46]<xylxjzys>you get like 30% or more productivity increase
[23:46]<xylxjzys>Shadda: Windows doesn't handle multiple windows well except maximized though :/
[23:46]<pz2>Xiphoris: I have a laptop running linux, and a Windowsbox that has one monitor
[23:46]<xylxjzys>I usually have my IDE on one and browser on another
[23:46]<y-gz>frb: so are you doing mono then ? :)
[23:46]<pz2>Shadda: who's the author on the book you referenced?
[23:47]<pz2>i-nZ: we use Win2k mostly for our servers
[23:47]<sxrmmr>frb, ah not sure. It's in some box in the other room, getting ready to move
[23:47]<xylxjzys>frb: I know it's not answering your question, but I would really suggest getting a dual-monitor setup... it really will speed up your dev time, for exactly that alt-tab issue you mentioned
[23:47]<pz2>Shadda: it's it white paperback?
[23:47]<xylxjzys>frb: even if you have hard copies too, you always need to refer to things electronically
[23:47]<pz2>Xiphoris: I'm not that much a developer anyway
[23:47]<sxrmmr>Xiphoris, people always tell me I'll get used to it, but I dunno, multi-monitors is so disorienting for me
[23:47]<sxrmmr>frb, yes, large white paper back, purple top (I think)
[23:47]<xylxjzys>Shadda: well you have to set them up so that windows cross between them
[23:48]<xylxjzys>you probably have your windows going off the left side of the left monitor and coming onto the right side of the right one :)
[23:48]<xylxjzys>;p
[23:48]<sxrmmr>heh, no ;p
[23:48]<pz2>Shadda: paperbck?
[23:48]<xylxjzys>there are a lot of things that change when you have multi monitors
[23:48]<zgzzcygnv>hmmm
[23:48]<zgzzcygnv>gotta be at work in a few
[23:48]<sxrmmr>frb, nod
[23:48]<pz2>Shadda: ok, found that one
[23:48]<xylxjzys>for example, I've found that putting the task bar vertical is much better when you have more screen space
[23:48]<xylxjzys>with 1 monitor you want it horizontal -- 2, vertical for sure
[23:48]<sxrmmr>That would drive me nuts
[23:49]<sxrmmr>I don't have many neurotic tendencies but, things like that don't sit well with me
[23:49]<pz2>if I wanted a dual monitor setup, I'd have to do it on my laptop
[23:49]<sxrmmr>I can't even have shit cluttered around my monitor...I *hate* having things in my peripheral vision
[23:49]<pz2>or buy the second monitor with my own money, or use a CRT and an LCD
[23:49]<xylxjzys>Shadda: well everyone is different :)
[23:49]<sxrmmr>heh, well and another thing
[23:49]<xylxjzys>Shadda: I have found somethings I just have to force myself to get used to
[23:50]<sxrmmr>for dual monitors to even work for me
[23:50]<xylxjzys>remember that a lot of it is just a lack of muscle memory
[23:50]<sxrmmr>I'd have to get a second monitor the same size
[23:50]<xylxjzys>you just have to force yourself
[23:50]<sxrmmr>I'm not blowing another $1600 hehehe
[23:50]<xylxjzys>oh yes certainly
[23:50]<xylxjzys>same width doesn't matter
[23:50]<xylxjzys>but height and color does
[23:50]<xylxjzys>I have two dell 2001 FPs
[23:50]<pz2>I would rather have 1600x1200 than a second monitor
[23:50]<rxrcr>I miss X-Windows workspaces the most
[23:50]<xylxjzys>that's why you have two 1600x1200 monitors :)
[23:50]<sxrmmr>I just dropped 1.6k on this beast, have it hooked up to DVI
[23:50]<zgzzcygnv>i'd like to have two 30" apple cinema displays
[23:50]<zgzzcygnv>lets see
[23:51]<pz2>right now I have dell E1730Pb or something
[23:51]<zgzzcygnv>2560x2 is what?
[23:51]<xylxjzys>I actually leave my monitor at work, since that's where I do most of my dev
[23:51]<xylxjzys>I just keep my one 1600x1200 at home
[23:51]<zgzzcygnv>5120x1600 resolution rofl
[23:51]<xylxjzys>and at work I have 2x 1600x1200
[23:51]<sxrmmr>heh
[23:51]<pz2>anyway, back to books
[23:51]<xylxjzys>so are the people learning C# from scratch?
[23:51]<xylxjzys>like, is this their first language?
[23:51]<pz2>someone recommended the books from MS Press
[23:51]<xylxjzys>otherwise you want to get some advanced-level books
[23:51]<pz2>no, we're all developers
[23:51]<pz2>I can kick ass at javascript
[23:52]<xylxjzys>ok, I would say "Programming .NET Cmponents"
[23:52]<xylxjzys>it teaches you all the cool, sophisticated features of .NET and C#
[23:52]<sxrmmr>Eh, I'd say never "expect" complete understanding of any language, regardless of their background experience
[23:52]<hjll>hi guys, i need help with visual studio installer (i have problems with conditions). I'm detecting flash version. And i don't know how to do such thing. that if i find in registry version 8, i should check just for flash8.ocx on filesystem. if i find version9, just check flash9.ocx anyone, please? :)
[23:52]<pz2>ooh, O'Reilly
[23:52]<sxrmmr>people like me need things to be explained one bit at a time, sometimes
[23:52]<xylxjzys>frb: I'd say that's probably the best programming book I've ever read
[23:52]<xylxjzys>in terms of how much I got out of it

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