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[02:20]<[rg]sjryjlrvx>they are bastards
[02:20]<ymuggt0t0t>along with the system libraries
[02:20]<[rg]sjryjlrvx>they are illegitimate childs
[02:20]<kjr>I still think you're putting us all on
[02:20]<[rg]sjryjlrvx>children
[02:21]<[rg]sjryjlrvx>gn now
[02:21]<ymuggt0t0t>mmm....C
[02:21]<kjr>idunn50505: as long as it isn't on windows, C is a nice language
[02:21]<ymuggt0t0t>yeah and as long as you have a boatload of other libraries already written for you
[02:21]<kjr>depends on what you're doing
[02:22]<ymuggt0t0t>making a usable program
[02:22]<kjr>define usable
[02:22]<kjr>I've written a few programs in C that are entirely usable just fine
[02:22]<ymuggt0t0t>a program that interacts with the outside world
[02:22]<ymuggt0t0t>not something that runs a loop and then dies
[02:23]<slzygc>There are some things you just cant write in C#.. then you have stuff like C
[02:23]<kjr>uh, most stuff in any language runs a loop then dies in the abstract
[02:23]<ymuggt0t0t>ive written programs in C too and unless you want to reinvent the wheel every time you need to use a lot of existing libraries
[02:23]<kjr>idunn50505: once again, it depends on what you're doing
[02:24]<kjr>but I would argue that any language is better when you have a tested toolkit to use
[02:24]<kjr>that's the point of HLL
[02:24]<ymuggt0t0t>there you go the
[02:24]<kjr>so you aren't really describing a unique state of C, but of any language
[02:25]<ymuggt0t0t>C# has classes, delegates, events, etc, built in
[02:25]<ymuggt0t0t>C doesn't, you would need to use libraries to do something similar
[02:25]<slzygc>idunn50505. C# cant do everything C can, though
[02:25]<kjr>C isn't OO
[02:25]<kjr>it's not a valid comparison
[02:25]<ymuggt0t0t>i never said that
[02:25]<zj2-wzc>C doesn't have classes because OOP wasn't even invented in 1970
[02:25]<ymuggt0t0t>delegates and OO? huh?
[02:26]<kjr>idunn50505: it does have delegates however
[02:26]<kjr>or, something akin to them anyway
[02:26]<ymuggt0t0t>not multi cast delegates
[02:26]<kjr>idunn50505: it has function pointers, which are the same thing as a delegate
[02:26]<kjr>well, not by identity but by function
[02:26]<ymuggt0t0t>... i just said it doesnt have multi cast
[02:26]<zj2-wzc>technically in the end C# compiles down to stuff that could be done in C it would just be harder
[02:26]<kjr>idunn50505: that's because the metaphor doesn't hold
[02:27]<kjr>rob-wrk: probably heh
[02:27]<ymuggt0t0t>how doesnt it? i can imagine a function pointer which calls a queue of pointers one by one
[02:27]<kjr>rob-wrk: there's also a lot more work in making sure it doesn't leak
[02:27]<ymuggt0t0t>garbage collection is also in the nature of C#
[02:27]<kjr>idunn50505: you're not solving the same problem in the same way
[02:27]<kjr>you're not doing the same type of modular deconstruction
[02:27]<kjr>which is the actual point of OOP
[02:27]<zj2-wzc>Kog: oh yeah, I've done data encapsulation and polymorphism in C before, basically by reinventing the inner workings (vtable) of C++/C# ;)
[02:28]<kjr>rob-wrk: heh
[02:28]<kjr>rob-wrk: you didn't just use ObjC?
[02:28]<ymuggt0t0t>rob-wrk: take a look at gobject? heh
[02:28]<zj2-wzc>no I did it just to fuck with a retard professor, raw ANSI C99.
[02:28]<ymuggt0t0t>and of course C doesnt have generics
[02:29]<ymuggt0t0t>so thats not just a toolkit thing
[02:29]<kjr>no, but you can solve that too
[02:29]<ymuggt0t0t>it can be part of the language (C#) or it can be part of a library (C)
[02:29]<kjr>idunn50505: typing is a different animal in procedural
[02:29]<ymuggt0t0t>and to solve all of those, you would need a good library(ies)
[02:29]<kjr>not necessarily
[02:29]<kjr>just a lot of void pointers
[02:30]<ymuggt0t0t>which amounts to rewriting a library
[02:30]<kjr>uh, you're going to be writing functions no matter what you do
[02:30]<ymuggt0t0t>but you can reuse a hashtable from glib, or you can write it on your own
[02:30]<kjr>ack, gnu
[02:31]<ymuggt0t0t>libc doesnt have everything that you need
[02:32]<ymuggt0t0t>and its the building block for most other things anyways
[02:32]<ymuggt0t0t>so at the very least you're going to be using that unless you want to rewrite parts of libc
[02:32]<kjr>idunn50505: I think we can agree that regardless of language, it's always nice to have a nice toolkit/lib
[02:32]<ymuggt0t0t>yes
[02:32]<ymuggt0t0t>so thats it, the argument is over now?
[02:32]<ymuggt0t0t>i need to go home lol
[02:32]<kjr>and I'm sure we can agree that it's always better to use the language that's appropriate
[02:32]<kjr>to solve any given problem
[02:33]<ymuggt0t0t>yep
[02:33]<ymuggt0t0t>awesome
[02:33]<kjr>idunn50505: wasn't much of an argument
[02:33]<ymuggt0t0t>i feel much better now
[02:33]<rxrcr>heh
[02:33]<kjr>I've been trying to say those two facts since you started trying to argue with me
[02:33]<ymuggt0t0t>yeah it was more like coming to terms
[02:33]<kjr>they're universal truths
[02:33]<ymuggt0t0t>i wouldnt go that far ;)
[02:33]<kjr>you'd rather not have a good library in a language?
[02:33]<kjr>suit yourself
[02:33]<ymuggt0t0t>all right im going home thanks for the suggestions about RTFM
[02:34]<kjr>jesus... if my company would just add the index I asked for, we could reduce our query time from 70 seconds to 8
[02:34]<kjr>bastards.
[02:35]<gzup>damn index hogs
[02:35]<kjr>Gruf: I could try adding it... but I'm afraid it might mess something else up
[02:35]<kjr>it's also an outsourced solution
[02:35]<kjr>so I'm not sure I could
[02:37]<kjr>now if I could only figure out how the fuck explain works in PGSQL
[02:49]<slzygc>70 second query time.. wtf kinda database is that
[02:49]<kjr>sprink: MySQL 4something, using MyISAM
[02:50]<slzygc>must be a freaking huge database
[02:50]<kjr>not really
[02:50]<kjr>MySQL 4.0.24_Debian-10sarge2-log is the MySQL version
[02:51]<slzygc>hehe debian.. my distro of choice
[02:51]<kjr>was transacting across less than 1M records
[02:51]<kjr>we use debian because it's outsourced and that's what they run
[02:51]<kjr>our servers are all Gentoo

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