IRC Logs

Network: freenode Channel: #csharp

	Enter your search terms Submit search form
	Web www.irclog.org

[00:35]<kjr>most of the UML tools seem to only do Java
[00:36]<kjr>http://www.asptoday.com/Content.aspx?id=1837
[00:36]<sljjcn>kog i don't think so... let me see cause i never tried...
[00:36]<cjmgrug>tareque840 are you new to c# ?
[00:36]<rxrcr>VS Enterprise Architect comes with a visio designer component that functions like a CASE tool
[00:36]<rxrcr>not as good as RR used to be
[00:36]<kjr>http://www.visualuml.com/
[00:36]<kjr>http://www.objecteering.com/products_csharp_developer_reuse.php
[00:36]<kjr>google "uml c# reverse"
[00:37]<kjr>chaka: yeah, but who has Enterprise Arch... that's buku bucks
[00:37]<rxrcr>Kog, yeah. It's free here obviously, but the only other place I've seen it is at MSDN Platinum partner members or whatever
[00:38]<kjr>oh, of course... I'll get right on that
[00:38]<sljjcn>kog i have vs 2005 pro.. and no it can't do any revers engineering. It has only a visual class builder
[00:38]<aznnlnz-->is it possible to make C# work in mirc? since C# is not compiled to native code
[00:38]<kjr>Spooke: the visual class builder any good?
[00:38]<sljjcn>i tried it and it is very good
[00:38]<kjr>creeper--: ewww
[00:38]<sljjcn>kog did you see or try it?
[00:39]<kjr>nope
[00:39]<rxrcr>Kog, a couple shops around here are qualified "partners", I used to work at one a while back
[00:39]<kjr>creeper--: you might be able to compile a DLL and it might be smart enough to work
[00:39]<kjr>chaka: heh
[00:39]<sljjcn>kog if you whant i can make some screen shot...
[00:40]<rxrcr>Kog, basically just needed to staff X number of people with the right certifications or whatever, it wasn't too hard
[00:40]<kjr>Spooke: sure
[00:41]<pz2>how can I get visual studio to give me an outline of all my functions in a .js file?
[00:41]<aznnlnz-->Kog I tried it doesn't work
[00:41]<aznnlnz-->it can't find the functions in dll
[00:41]<kjr>doesn't surprise me
[00:41]<aznnlnz-->maybe it's because of calling conventions, I don't know
[00:42]<kjr>it probably has no idea what to do with the entry point
[00:46]<cjmgrug>Spooke : is it better to create classes using the Class Diagrams or by hand, in VS2k5 ?
[00:47]<sjgvnc>CodeRun, I usually stub out all the code and then have it generate the classes for me
[00:47]<sjgvnc>But it depends if you are a visual person or can think of the design in code
[00:48]<cjmgrug>hmm
[00:49]<kjr>depends on the development cycle
[00:49]<kjr>if you're doing a large multideveloper system, I'd go with UML at a meeting
[00:49]<cjmgrug>sontek, but it doesnt let you specify the relationships between classes right?
[00:49]<kjr>but people think UML is bullshit anyway
[00:49]<pz2>there are a lot of things people think are bullshit
[00:49]<pz2>like flowcharts and actual execution plans
[00:50]<cjmgrug>i hope that sarcasm, frb
[00:50]<kjr>frb: development tools aren't particularly useful if you have no buy-in
[00:50]<pz2>CodeRun: no, it isn't
[00:50]<kjr>CodeRun: flowcharts are a thinly veiled allusion to a dinosaur these days
[00:50]<pz2>I find them quite useful on complex codepaths to see what the hell is going on
[00:51]<kjr>I might add that flowcharts are carnivorous
[00:51]<cjmgrug>i though flowcharts were the Heart of a project design period.
[00:51]<kjr>CodeRun: depends on how you do your development
[00:51]<sjgvnc>Hes not joking, my company has a strict policy about not doing anything if it ends with "char" or "graph"
[00:52]<sjgvnc>chart*
[00:52]<kjr>I think Kent Beck had a "burn the flowchart" revolution
[00:52]<kjr>it was his analog to burning bras
[00:52]<kjr>same reason, same method
[00:52]<sjgvnc>They just waste time
[00:52]<cjmgrug>what?? then how do people plan their complex programs?
[00:52]<pz2>in the majority of cases that managers want them sure
[00:52]<kjr>frb: depends on what you're doing
[00:52]<sjgvnc>We actually set a timer during meetings (and we try to limit meetings) but if more than a half hour goes by we wrap it up
[00:52]<kjr>there are a great many types of software
[00:53]<pz2>anyway, do what you want, just do something so it doesn't turn into the buggy crap that usually comes out of the lack of planning on most FOSS projects
[00:53]<sjgvnc>We deal in only webbased applications and we do write requirement documents and functional specs and use cases. But there is no point to create a flow chart
[00:53]<kjr>ah but you see, FOSS = release early, release often
[00:53]<sjgvnc>we create the actual front end of the application first, Thats our flow chart
[00:53]<kjr>sontek: use cases and class diagrams are the documents most frequently considered "useful"
[00:54]<kjr>sontek: except when people call use cases user narratives
[00:54]<kjr>but we all know they're the same thing
[00:54]<cjmgrug>class diagrams are UML things, arent they? and what exactly are 'use-cases' ?
[00:54]<kjr>frb: you've apparently never heard of participatory design - the worst idea ever
[00:54]<kjr>AKA hippy-dippy bullshit
[00:54]<sjgvnc>CodeRun, Uses cases are where you think about how your application is going to be used
[00:54]<pz2>Kog: no I haven't
[00:55]<cjmgrug>oh
[00:55]<kjr>frb: oh god, save yourself through ignorance
[00:55]<kjr>CodeRun: there are Use Case diagrams in UML
[00:55]<kjr>CodeRun: the ones with stick figures and circles
[00:55]<pz2>Kog: I've always done modular programming, where one person does one thing, and it magically works what the other did because the specs and behaviours are documented
[00:55]<sjgvnc>CodeRun, like if you are building an authentication page.. you'll write out stuff for each case "1. User clicks button without information filled in. 2. User puts in bad info. 3. User puts in good info"
[00:55]<kjr>frb: which isn't mutually exclusive of Participatory Design
[00:55]<gjrvcxnne>is there an easy method for recursive directory copying?
[00:56]<pz2>GoatCheez: drag and drop :)
[00:56]<kjr>god, I hope not
[00:56]<kjr>oh god, it is
[00:56]<kjr>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_design
[00:56]<cjmgrug>sontek : so you first map out all the possible things that CAN happen, then you simply write code to take care of all those cases, eh?
[00:56]<kjr>http://www.cpsr.org/issues/pd/
[00:56]<pz2>oh, participitory design sux0rz
[00:56]<kjr>frb: let me first warn you that never ever ever read anything written by Schuler
[00:56]<sljjcn>kog ftp://82.61.53.18
[00:57]<sljjcn>user cisco
[00:57]<sljjcn>pass cisco
[00:57]<sjgvnc>CodeRun, yeap. Its easier to code off of situations rather than a diagram with arrows
[00:57]<gjrvcxnne>whack y0... u can move a directory, but you can't copy one...
[00:57]<gjrvcxnne>whack
[00:57]<cjmgrug>nice, sontek
[00:58]<pz2>users are always wrong, until the product is released, the the user is right, but it's a customer service problem
[00:58]<dyguw>When using TcpClient.BeginRead(); how can I, in the callback method, find out if the connection was closed by the remote host? (Since that will trigger the BeginRead() callback).
[00:58]<cjmgrug>Kog : what do you think about eXtreme Programming (XP) ?
[00:58]<kjr>CodeRun: Kent Beck is on cocaine
[00:59]<cjmgrug>lol, why?

Back to #csharp
Or go to some related logs:
#cisco
#blender
#gentoo
#azureus
#gentoo