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[02:02]<zgzzcygnv>the filesystem is independant from the OS
[02:02]<myv_mjjgq>can u have an OS without FS :)
[02:02]<zrrry>AnarkiNet: depends if you come from windowsland
[02:02]<zrrry>div_Moon2: yes
[02:03]<zgzzcygnv>my iPod is FAT32 formatted and works on both a pc and a mac, so umm
[02:03]<myv_mjjgq>stateless one
[02:03]<zrrry>no
[02:03]<zrrry>you have ram
[02:03]<zrrry>processes, threads, media, content, drivers
[02:03]<myv_mjjgq>this is incomplete OS
[02:03]<myv_mjjgq>incomplete
[02:03]<zrrry>lol
[02:03]<zgzzcygnv>uh
[02:03]<zrrry>linux is incomplete?
[02:03]<zrrry>bsd's are incomplete?
[02:04]<dygr_fyguw_tuw>hello, i have a final project of a C# track and i have to get a new idea that can be a web/windows application, any idea or a place to get some interesting ideas for my project
[02:04]<zgzzcygnv>no, an OS doesnt mean the bundle of software included
[02:04]<zgzzcygnv>it means that software that all the other stuff runs on
[02:04]<myv_mjjgq>this is kerenl
[02:04]<zgzzcygnv>which is a very small amount of stuff
[02:04]<myv_mjjgq>this is the kerenl
[02:04]<myv_mjjgq>not the os
[02:04]<myv_mjjgq>u r talking about
[02:04]<zrrry>div_Moon2: no, it's the operating system
[02:04]<myv_mjjgq>open any OS book, and if you found a book without FS then tellme
[02:04]<rxrcr>CodeRun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_NTFS
[02:05]<myv_mjjgq>i don't care! FS is part of OS for me
[02:05]<myv_mjjgq>so thanx guy
[02:05]<myv_mjjgq>i will check in mono site
[02:05]<zrrry>div_Moon2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
[02:05]<rxrcr>I couldn't find a decent txNTFS link on msdn for some reason, just a ton of disorganised blogposts
[02:05]<dygr_fyguw_tuw>any comments
[02:05]<zrrry>read the introduction section
[02:05]<axjwmgyggm>well
[02:05]<zrrry>disk acess != file system
[02:06]<axjwmgyggm>in the case of windows
[02:06]<axjwmgyggm>ntfs is pretty much your only option
[02:06]<zrrry>disk access == api for access to A filesystem instance which implements taht api
[02:06]<myv_mjjgq>hehe u see " and managing files"
[02:06]<myv_mjjgq>in wikipedia
[02:06]<myv_mjjgq> and managing files
[02:06]<myv_mjjgq> and managing files
[02:06]<zrrry>chowmeined: HPFS
[02:06]<dygr_fyguw_tuw>no comment ???
[02:06]<axjwmgyggm>sure and fat32
[02:06]<axjwmgyggm>but those arent common
[02:06]<zrrry>idd
[02:06]<zrrry>or fat12, or fat16
[02:06]<zrrry>laterz
[02:07]<myv_mjjgq>agree ?
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>managing files does not mean the filesystem you nubcake
[02:08]<myv_mjjgq>AnarkiNet: so is wikipedia
[02:08]<zrrry>div_Moon2: no - managing files has ntohing to do wiht the filesystem
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>maybe you should learn some fucking english
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>kthxbai
[02:08]<rxrcr>AnarkiNet, maybe because you didn't do a sufficient job to convince him otherwise?
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>its IRC
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>why should i bother?
[02:08]<zgzzcygnv>in the end, it doesnt matter
[02:08]<rxrcr>you shouldn't, appearantly
[02:08]<myv_mjjgq>what is this :) kthxbai
[02:09]<zrrry>managing files means providing the kernel interface for applications to access the kernel view of a filesystem, or providing a driver view to a kernel module which provides such an api - depending on your design of kernel and application interface
[02:10]<myv_mjjgq>raggi: come on I am saying a complete OS is the one that has a FS
[02:10]<zrrry>that's not true
[02:10]<zrrry>AmigaDOS had no filesystem, that was a great OS
[02:10]<myv_mjjgq>from wikipedia
[02:10]<myv_mjjgq>"Most operating systems provide a file system, as a file system is an integral part of any modern operating system"
[02:11]<vufvuzn>raggi: most people consider things like "explorer" (or midnight commander) to be "file managers" - thus performing file management. Filesystems are the things you seem to be talking about.. in any case this seems to be a rather fruitless discussion
[02:11]<zrrry>that should read "modern desktop operating system"
[02:11]<zrrry>many many embeded systems don't use a filesystem and have an OS
[02:11]<myv_mjjgq>raggi: i do OS hacking
[02:11]<myv_mjjgq>like FreeBSD
[02:11]<myv_mjjgq>so stop it
[02:11]<zrrry>really, what name do you commit under?
[02:12]<myv_mjjgq>raggi: i do not commit till now !
[02:12]<zrrry>i see
[02:12]<kjr>erm, Vista uses a different version of NTFS than XP
[02:12]<kjr>so yes, in effect it ships with a different FS
[02:12]<zrrry>i mean i know, no wait, the prior was les arrogant =)
[02:13]<kjr>and it's possible to do stuff like that... FreeBSD6 introduced background FSCK where you didn't need to unmount drives
[02:13]<kjr>(introduced to the FreeBSD development world anyway)
[02:13]<kjr>chowmeined: and plenty of people still use Fat32 because it's easier to recover data from
[02:13]<myv_mjjgq>bye bye
[02:13]<myv_mjjgq>salam
[02:13]<myv_mjjgq>arabic
[02:13]<axjwmgyggm>sure plenty of people use it
[02:14]<axjwmgyggm>but not as many
[02:14]<kjr>div_Moon2: salaam... two a's
[02:14]<zrrry>Kog: they replaced teh partition table aswell for support for bitlocker etc
[02:14]<kjr>chowmeined: I dunno about that
[02:14]<kjr>raggi: wouldn't surprise me
[02:14]<axjwmgyggm>and how is it easier to recover from? it doesnt even attempt to journal data
[02:14]<kjr>chowmeined: there are more commercial apps for it
[02:14]<zrrry>chowmeined: for exactly that reason
[02:14]<kjr>chowmeined: and it's easier to get something to read fat32
[02:14]<zrrry>well, lets be fair, fat32 is easier to read than NTFS
[02:15]<kjr>also, FAT32 does some simple stuff with unlinks - it prepends the file entry with an unprintable character
[02:15]<zrrry>plus in NTFS you have file streams and other metadata to contend with
[02:15]<kjr>(you lose the first character of your file, but chances are the file still exists)

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