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[09:33]<bjv_buyfmnz>I don't know .net's generic implementation details though
[09:34]<bjv_buyfmnz>I recall reading that generics made storing valuetypes quite a bit faster
[09:34]<kuggys>value-types are stored on the stack... ref-based objects are stored on the heap, which is the entire point of boxing.
[09:35]<anssnwwww>yeah in the last week of using c# ive been calling non .net apis and dealing with pointers
[09:35]<anssnwwww>i think microsofts stance on pointers in c# is cute
[09:35]<kuggys>jesse1111 Start by learning the ideas of .net first... then move into calling win API
[09:35]<kuggys>Having fun with PInvoke?
[09:36]<anssnwwww>yah
[09:36]<kuggys>go to pinvoke.net... it'll show you how to call all of your favorite windows libs.
[09:36]<anssnwwww>its not so bad, ive been coding in java and c++ for sometime
[09:36]<kuggys>Plus some samples.
[09:36]<anssnwwww>and c# just sits in between the two as far as im concerned
[09:36]<bjv_buyfmnz>I think the point of boxing is just to provide a reference wrapper for a valuetype
[09:37]<kuggys>I had a friend that did the jump... He's still trying to catch up because he's having to learn MC++... that's a truely evil language.
[09:37]<kuggys>Bot_Builder Guess how it does it?
[09:37]<anssnwwww>Im not a big fan of c# because i prefer low level coding
[09:37]<anssnwwww>but its fast to work with
[09:38]<kuggys>jesse1111 To each his own, but yeah, that's what got me addicted to .net.
[09:38]<bjv_buyfmnz>I like
[09:38]<bjv_buyfmnz>C
[09:38]<kuggys>It actually has a lot of fun little nuiances to it when you start learning it that has a lot of difference in optimization
[09:38]<anssnwwww>when i become dictator of the world its going to be compulsory C and ASM
[09:38]<bjv_buyfmnz>but I've found .net stuff to be so much less buggier
[09:39]<anssnwwww>yeah well i guess no pointers = no seg faults
[09:39]<bjv_buyfmnz>ARM ASM I hope. x86 is ghastly
[09:39]<kuggys>Well the think about .net is that you get a lot more complex structures are all over the place.
[09:39]<bjv_buyfmnz>the thing about .net is the GC :)
[09:39]<kuggys>And fun stuff like serialization, which is far less trivial in C
[09:39]<anssnwwww>yeah, thats handy i guess. How well does it work tho'?
[09:40]<anssnwwww>yeah serialization is in java
[09:40]<kuggys>most of the time you get the payoff...
[09:40]<anssnwwww>so is GC but yeah we all no that worked well....not
[09:40]<kuggys>The GC is pretty stable, I've only had 3 times of it being stupid, requirng my intervention.
[09:41]<bjv_buyfmnz>yeah
[09:41]<bjv_buyfmnz>I really should have gone C for my current project
[09:41]<bjv_buyfmnz>but the OOP of C# is so nice... I can't resist syntax candy
[09:42]<anssnwwww>If I had a choice I would be doing what I'm doing in C++ but my company is going .net
[09:42]<bjv_buyfmnz>ah
[09:42]<kuggys>It's not that bad once you get the hang of it
[09:42]<kuggys>What are you having problems doing?
[09:43]<anssnwwww>i have to do a lot of interfacing with autocad etc, which meens elemenents of elements of elements in datastructures with O(^n) complexities... I just hope I can not piss clients off with speed
[09:43]<anssnwwww>well nothing yet except what you solved for me
[09:43]<anssnwwww>google has been very helpfull
[09:44]<anssnwwww>and i have this ADO.NET book infront of me
[09:44]<kuggys>jesse1111 That's not that hard... have you been writing your own structs? There's a tool that will in theory generate the wrapper.
[09:44]<kuggys>Is the autocad wrapper a com object?
[09:44]<anssnwwww>yeah i've just been doing manualy
[09:44]<anssnwwww>with my brain half asleep
[09:45]<anssnwwww>abstracting tables and then doing what ever after
[09:45]<anssnwwww>i need more coffeeeee!
[09:45]<kuggys>Is the autocad lib COM or not?
[09:46]<lyzxvxzddnz>Goooooooooooooodddd Mooooooooooooooooorn !!! :)
[09:46]<kuggys>Lighthammer WHen I see your name, you just make me think Palidin... (I'm a wow addict)
[09:46]<anssnwwww>well its a bit of every thing. they do have com and they have some managed libraries through what they call objectarx
[09:46]<lyzxvxzddnz>:)
[09:46]<lyzxvxzddnz>lol
[09:47]<anssnwwww>half my code is written in LISP which for anyone whoes done AI would know stands for 'Lost In silly Parenthesis'
[09:47]<kuggys>If you want to go to the COM way, you can auto-generate the entire wrapper and it's not too horrid.
[09:47]<anssnwwww>yeah ive wrapped it now, with invoke
[09:47]<anssnwwww>their api is limitted
[09:48]<anssnwwww>however they have lisp as a scripting langauge so i have a process of shoving lisp at them
[09:48]<kuggys>Yeah. I learned a bit of autocad 14, and even as aprogrammer, it's lisp language scared me.
[09:48]<anssnwwww>oh yeah and IntPntr is cool
[09:49]<kuggys>Yeah. Well learn how to write pinvoke statements better.
[09:49]<anssnwwww>i think lisp was invented back in 1950s or something
[09:49]<anssnwwww>how? if they expose only a handfull of functions then i have no choice
[09:50]<kuggys>but you get fewer IntPtr's back and more useful objects
[09:50]<kuggys>Are you having to cast IntPtr a lot?
[09:50]<anssnwwww>no. Infact with my latest abstraction only once
[09:51]<kuggys>Go to pinvoke.net there's a lot of samples of stuff that'll work.
[09:51]<kuggys>You can see implmentations.
[09:51]<anssnwwww>infact not at all just looking back at my class
[09:51]<anssnwwww>but i had to use it a few times
[09:51]<anssnwwww>before
[09:51]<trfysdrg>moin
[09:51]<anssnwwww>ok ill give it a read
[09:52]<kuggys>It contains a lot of samples oyu can look at and try to copy
[09:52]<trfysdrg>Does anyone know anything about PortableStudio? I cannot make and need to resolve the missing dependancy (csant)
[09:52]<zgzzcygnv>hey
[09:52]<zgzzcygnv>John Melendez "I'll bet $5 on anything" is on
[09:53]<kuggys>Which channel?
[09:53]<zgzzcygnv>NBC
[09:53]<zgzzcygnv>its 8 where i am
[09:54]<kuggys>Nope. NOt here.
[09:55]<ssfrsxns>i am having trouble with this exception class, it gives me the error "'ManagerException' is inaccessable due to its protection level", code: http://www.nomorepasting.com/paste.php?pasteID=67889
[09:55]<ssfrsxns>the constructors are public, so i am stumped
[09:55]<kuggys>Is the class marked public
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>no its not
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>which means it defaults to internal
[09:56]<ssfrsxns>Kunnis: your awsume - don't know how i missed it
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>oh by the way
[09:56]<kuggys>I thought the defaults to private
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>your code is FUCKING UGLY
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>you cant have a private class
[09:56]<kuggys>Second.
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>use enums
[09:56]<zgzzcygnv>not consts
[09:57]<zgzzcygnv>"OMG_A_CONST" is crappy syntax seen in other languages
[09:57]<zgzzcygnv>like C, PHP, and probably lots of others
[09:57]<kuggys>And insted of GetCode... use properties.

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