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[00:19]<znmnzz>tieTYT: the Qt people have some track record for deliverying cross-platform
[00:19]<bjv_buyfmnz>dudex2 - correct
[00:19]<znmnzz>tieTYT: few others have
[00:19]<mumnwq>Bot_Builder: that freaking rocks..
[00:19]<zzxzsvnz>dudex2: I think you missed the point about C#...
[00:19]<bjv_buyfmnz>though gui is rather slow as hell
[00:19]<pz2-wjzc>^Migs^, anyway, no offense, it's just that statistically speaking, Linux n00bs are more likely to go to a channel with an MS connection and start flaming randomly without reason
[00:20]<mumnwq>Bot_Builder: Slower than Java on windows lol?
[00:20]<znmnzz>frb-work: yep
[00:20]<pz2-wjzc>they even do it to "competing" linux channels
[00:20]<znmnzz>^Migs^: yeah, don't come here and get rhretorical
[00:20]<znmnzz>it's old
[00:20]<bjv_buyfmnz>dudex2 - well, its just the UI rendering - on linux and mac it's nonnative and a bit awkward. Most of System.Windows.Forms is supported though
[00:21]<pz2-wjzc>^Migs^, your first commends came off as sarcastic and the beginning of something silly
[00:21]<pz2-wjzc>err comments
[00:21]<zzxzsvnz>^Migs^: Which distro are you using?
[00:21]<znmnzz>^Migs^: linux is pretty good man, what sort of crack are you on?
[00:21]<zzxzsvnz>have you ever tried gentoo?
[00:21]<pz2-wjzc>Aghaster, don't start
[00:21]<mumnwq>Aghaster: Yes I know its for people who want to take it easy. But I've tried C++ and I've decided I should get into OOP and programming itself before trying to do these more complicated tasks. That's why I've only done Java and C# and VB.NET, all managed languages, because from what I know, C++ is the hardest (except for those old deprectaed langauges like C and assembly) to make GUI...
[00:21]<mumnwq>...applications for more than 1 platform
[00:21]<zzxzsvnz>frb-work: I wasn't starting a distro war
[00:22]<xjjld|vwgzcyg>i wish i worked at a place that required linux
[00:22]<bjv_buyfmnz>no, C++ is just the most fucked up
[00:22]<bjv_buyfmnz>its a hack on top of C
[00:22]<zzxzsvnz>agreed
[00:22]<znmnzz>mandrake made light tickering fun, but RPM made heavy tickering unfun
[00:22]<vynvyv>dudex2: you need to stop caring so much about speed of the language
[00:22]<xjjld|vwgzcyg>i probably wouldn't have to write .NET
[00:22]<zzxzsvnz>I've learned C++ first, then moved to C
[00:22]<vynvyv>unless you're making embeddable apps or want it to run on 100mhz machines
[00:23]<bjv_buyfmnz>dudex2 - yeah, win32 gui is the ugliest shite ever
[00:23]<zzxzsvnz>and C & assembly aren't "deprecated" ;P
[00:23]<bjv_buyfmnz>don't judge C on that crap. I did back in the day and that was a mistake
[00:23]<znmnzz>tieTYT: but the problem is embedded systems ARE important
[00:23]<znmnzz>it pays to stay on top of your c/c++ skills
[00:23]<zzxzsvnz>true, I have to admit I did some qbasic in my beginnings...
[00:23]<mumnwq>Aghaster: Yea but they're old, do you seriously think they're going to become the language of the future?
[00:23]<bjv_buyfmnz>yeh qb kicked ass :P
[00:23]<vynvyv>redear: what is the point of that comment?
[00:23]<zzxzsvnz>dudex2: watch what you are saying, C is very very widespread and use today
[00:24]<vynvyv>i didn't say otherwise
[00:24]<xjjld|vwgzcyg>and people who write system sotwatre
[00:24]<zzxzsvnz>and it still will in the future
[00:24]<bjv_buyfmnz>^Migs^ - lol, good one
[00:24]<xjjld|vwgzcyg>C will never die
[00:24]<bjv_buyfmnz>Dunno about that
[00:24]<kjr>never is a very long time
[00:24]<zzxzsvnz>Linux is written in C. lots of firmwares are written in C. Is windows written in C? someone answer to that
[00:24]<bjv_buyfmnz>I've got a scheme in the back of my head which should require just a kernel in C. My ideal OS
[00:24]<znmnzz>c/c++ is important because some people got it right, for some applications you can get away with not chasing Microsoft's api grind
[00:25]<pzjdyv>windows nt kernel is in C
[00:25]<bjv_buyfmnz>a microkernel of course...
[00:25]<zzxzsvnz>yeah, that's what I thought
[00:25]<pzjdyv>the middle and upper layers are C++
[00:25]<bjv_buyfmnz>HAHAHAHAA
[00:25]<zzxzsvnz>most OSes are simply written in C
[00:25]<bjv_buyfmnz>my god ^Migs^, do you believe that?
[00:25]<znmnzz>^Migs^: are you a bot?
[00:25]<zzxzsvnz>or otherwise in assembly
[00:25]<znmnzz>why would you say windows is in c#?
[00:25]<zzxzsvnz>it is?
[00:25]<zzxzsvnz>oh my god.
[00:25]<zzxzsvnz>XD thanks god.
[00:25]<mumnwq>Aghaster: I've only programmed at all whatsoever for a few months. I don't think I'm ready yet to go onto C++ programming, because that can get really really really messy. My "game plan" is to get C# and VB.NET as second nature to me, then explore Java (I've already started this, and its easy because java is a C# clone literally), and then attempt C++ GUI programming. C++ appears (I repeat,...
[00:25]<mumnwq>...appears) to be the most advanced language, and it requires the most experienced and smartest programmers for GUI applications that are efficient and don't have memory problems etc. etc. Assembly and C are also more advanced IMO.
[00:26]<txnjzd>^Migs^: it isn't?
[00:26]<xjjld|vwgzcyg>C# is a java clone*
[00:26]<znmnzz>put-you-to-sleep language discussion, once every hour on ##csharp
[00:26]<bjv_buyfmnz>C++ isn't advanced at all
[00:26]<mumnwq>LOL Windows Vista is written in java
[00:26]<zzxzsvnz>dudex2: The problem is to start by the end. GUI programming doesn't come first
[00:26]<bjv_buyfmnz>its just hard as hell because it isn't advanced at all
[00:26]<znmnzz>hey i could use some side money
[00:27]<bjv_buyfmnz>bad plan too, you'll hate C++ after the sexiness of C#
[00:27]<znmnzz>and i want to learn end to end development (force myself to make builds)
[00:27]<zzxzsvnz>I think I did it in the wrong order, we should begin with C before C++ and I did it the other way
[00:27]<znmnzz>using cool things like cruise controla nd such
[00:27]<vynvyv>dudex2: the fact that C++ uses pointers makes it a primitive language
[00:27]<znmnzz>but i need a software idea
[00:27]<zzxzsvnz>if you want a C++ tutorial, just read mine. www.planetcpp.info
[00:27]<txnjzd>I dunno, there are some sexinesses in c++ that c# doesn't have (using operators in generic types I am looking at you)
[00:27]<znmnzz>may i kindly ask you fine folks what are some software you'd like to see written?
[00:27]<vynvyv>a language that is more error prone (like C++) does make it better. It's the opposite
[00:27]<mumnwq>Aghaster: Yea but I've already done console programming with C++, I've read full two books on it (C++ for Dummies and Learning C++), and I want to learn something I can actually apply, and console programming isn't what I'm eventually going to do and use.
[00:27]<vynvyv>i mean does not
[00:27]<txnjzd>tieTYT: does that make c# a primative language too? :-0
[00:27]<znmnzz>preferrably something simple, and not developer-tool type of problems
[00:28]<znmnzz>freeware stuff
[00:28]<zzxzsvnz>dudex2: That's because you never went further than that
[00:28]<bjv_buyfmnz>you can't use ops on generics in C#?
[00:28]<mumnwq>Bob_Builder: I already hate C++ lol...
[00:28]<bjv_buyfmnz>that's pretty messed up
[00:28]<txnjzd>redear: a decent todo list tracker
[00:28]<vynvyv>Theory: no because you don't have to use them to get things done in C#
[00:28]<zzxzsvnz>dudex2: Just get a good library and do something GUI in C++
[00:28]<txnjzd>tieTYT: likewise in c++ most of the time to be honest
[00:28]<vynvyv>Theory: is that so?
[00:28]<mumnwq>Aghaster: What is your suggested order? I'm already too absorbed into C# to just let it go and try C++.
[00:28]<znmnzz>i am pretty free of good ideas

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