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[04:31]<vjnv>those will allow you to scroll through the different stories
[04:31]<vjnv>through the list of 'new stories' actually
[04:32]<vjnv>hope you enjoy it :)
[04:32]<vjnv>its my first non-work related program that i would like people to use:)
[04:32]<sxyg-rr>I wish there was a way to get alerts on msn :P
[04:33]<vjnv>digg alerts through msn?
[04:33]<sxyg-rr>no for a program i was going to make
[04:33]<vjnv>ahh
[04:34]<vjnv>also, feel free to ask if there are any questions about the options on there or if you dont want to talk to me, check out the faq :)
[04:34]<sxyg-rr>lol
[04:36]<vjnv>also, feel free to tell your friends about it :P. just dont post it on digg
[04:36]<vjnv>hehe
[04:36]<vjnv>i dont think my server / the program is ready for it
[04:37]<sxyg-rr>you should ask the regular members in here
[04:38]<vjnv>i did the other night and then they were awesome and found bugs
[04:39]<vjnv>so tonightis the first night i feel comfortable to ask people again
[04:39]<vjnv>hehe
[04:41]<rxrcr>http://women.kde.org/
[04:41]<rxrcr>strong enough for a man but php balanced for a woman
[04:42]<cjmgrug>Hey all!
[04:43]<cjmgrug>hey chaka, do you know how to make skinnable apps in C# ?
[04:44]<rxrcr>er, the only UI stuff I've done with C# is using WPF (Aka avalon), which makes changing the UI for a program about as easy as making a flash swf
[04:45]<cjmgrug>hmm.. i see. I was personally going to try and make it with WPF.. but its still in beta.. and i dont know when we'll get a final version out.
[04:45]<rxrcr>er, within the next week or 2
[04:45]<rxrcr>the app I'm working on coincides with it's release
[04:46]<rxrcr>it slipped again
[04:46]<cjmgrug>oh really?? i thought it would come out with vista only.. thats good :)..
[04:46]<cjmgrug>oh thats bad, how bad is the delay?
[04:46]<rxrcr>no, WPF is basically just a C# library, it happens to be integrated into vista
[04:47]<cjmgrug>i see.
[04:47]<rxrcr>er, considering avalon project started 6 years ago, a week slip isn't bad
[04:47]<cjmgrug>i see.
[04:48]<rxrcr>vista originally was going to use WPF, but mid-way through they figured out developing a library and developing an OS UI that uses it side by side doesn't work very well
[04:48]<cjmgrug>right..
[04:49]<cjmgrug>so, it might roll out its own UI engine(which is not avalon anymore) ?
[04:49]<rxrcr>dunno, I only know that no core vista components use avalon
[04:50]<rxrcr>Glass/DWM/etc, they all achieve their cool 3d, hardware rendered visuals through other means
[04:50]<cjmgrug>interesting.
[04:50]<bjv_buyfmnz>poor MS is afraid of its dogfood
[04:52]<cjmgrug>thanks chaka, for all this info :) .. i'll go and try fiddling with XAML
[04:52]<rxrcr>avalon itself is pretty nice. I'm sure OS had a good reason for ripping it out, but for apps it's awesome
[04:53]<cjmgrug>is it worth downloading the july CTP now? or i'll just wait for 1 more week for the final thing?
[04:54]<rxrcr>the only thing that sucks about the July CTP is that you have to use the June CTP VS Extensions
[04:54]<rxrcr>they work fine if you're just fiddling
[04:55]<cjmgrug>nah, i guess it will be more than fiddling.. :p
[04:56]<rxrcr>CodeRun, I used July CTP up until I needed to make an installer + .NET 3 bootstrap
[04:56]<rxrcr>works fine
[04:57]<rxrcr>but since the app will be released right after RC1 bits go live, we want the bootstrapper to use RC1 bits not July CTP, so I have to use RC1 bits :p
[04:57]<cjmgrug>oh ok.
[05:00]<rtdfyrrf>Does VS2005 Express to class models?
[05:00]<vjydnd`>Oh sweet... XNA is out..
[05:01]<snfxnzynf>it requires.... C# Express Studio though
[05:01]<snfxnzynf>I just want the XNA framework
[05:01]<vjydnd`>Theres nothing wrong with C# express...
[05:01]<snfxnzynf>unless you have VS2005 Professional Premium
[05:02]<vjydnd`>:/
[05:02]<snfxnzynf>oh well, I guess I'll install it anyway
[05:04]<zgzzcygnv>"professional premium"?
[05:04]<zgzzcygnv>what the hell is that?
[05:10]<snfxnzynf>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/products/subscriptions/premium/
[05:18]<rxrcr>I've been hoping to play with XNA also, but I'm a complete nub with 3d gfx
[05:24]<sxyg-rr>chaka, learn geometry ;)
[05:25]<sxyg-rr>ugh i just installed DirectX SDK July and just seen August edition :(
[05:27]<rxrcr>Shin-Ra, I've gone through the OpenGL tutorials, gotten "The Red Book" and skimmed through it, built and played with Ogre, exported custom meshes for it, used a default Scene manager with some custom elements, and thats about it.
[05:28]<rxrcr>I picked up a fair amount of practicals doing those things, but I'm know closer to understanding the rendering pipeline and whys and hows of game engine organisation
[05:28]<sxyg-rr>ill use directx since i could give a shit about portablity
[05:28]<rxrcr>all that said, I'm still nub :)
[05:29]<rxrcr>there are people here working on avalon that have forgotten more than I know about 3d programming
[05:31]<rxrcr>wow, the XNA Game Studio Express internal mailing lists are just a big ball of flames at the moment
[05:38]<sxyg-rr>whatcha mean?
[05:38]<rxrcr>lots of people annoyed that XNA Game Studio only supporting C# Express
[05:40]<pzjdyv>yeah but luckily you only have to use C# express if you want to dev for xbox
[05:40]<pzjdyv>or if you want to use their content stuff
[05:41]<pzjdyv>both of which are optional, and neither of which was released today
[05:41]<sxyg-rr>thats good
[05:41]<sxyg-rr>fuck vb.net :)
[05:41]<pzjdyv>well i'm doing XNA work in VS 2005 Pro right now
[05:41]<snfxnzynf>chaka: yeah, see. I'm one of them
[05:41]<sxyg-rr>why can VS have colour schemes
[05:42]<snfxnzynf>Promit: know where an XNA framework standalone is?
[05:42]<pzjdyv>what do you mean by standalone?
[05:42]<snfxnzynf>a standalone download that is seperate from the Game Studio Express download
[05:43]<pzjdyv>there isn't any, you still need to install C# express to get it working
[05:43]<snfxnzynf>ahh, roger that
[05:43]<sxyg-rr>and that sucks :(
[05:43]<pzjdyv>i wrote this up earlier today, which clarifies some of the structure of what was relesed today: http://graphicsdev.net/journal.comments.php?entry=24
[05:43]<snfxnzynf>right
[05:43]<pzjdyv>what's more hilarious is that the 100 MB download is almost entirely the sample game
[05:43]<pzjdyv>the actual SDK is not even 5 MB i think
[05:44]<pzjdyv>i haven't got an accurate size measurement on the docs, but given how thin they are, they can't be that big.
[05:44]<pzjdyv>not to mention the uncompressed content folder is 150 MB, so that pretty much explains a lot
[05:44]<sxyg-rr>whens the xbox360 devkit coming out?
[05:44]<pzjdyv>assuming that by "devkit" you don't mean "actual devkit but XNA's fake thing" i've seen two cited dates: "holiday" and "spring"
[05:45]<pzjdyv>erase that "don't"
[05:45]<pzjdyv>what i'm trying to say is that it's some vague point in the near future
[05:45]<sxyg-rr>and how much?
[05:46]<pzjdyv>99/year subscription to join their "creator's club"
[05:46]<pzjdyv>and i don't understand exactly what that buys yet
[05:46]<pzjdyv>i actually ported my (relatively small) codebase to XNA today

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