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[22:33]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>Seph, can you please look at my paste
[22:33]<jusvygc>Theory: I'm saying that we shouldn't avoid complexity only because it will make it harder for some people to learn.
[22:34]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>its basically a test case
[22:34]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>i really need help
[22:34]<jusvygc>Theory: I think that the experts will be able to do amazing things with the new features.
[22:34]<snfxnzynf>whats_in_a_name, I missed your link
[22:34]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>k
[22:34]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>http://www.nomorepasting.com/paste.php?pasteID=68011
[22:34]<txnjzd>when I hear "experts" and "amazing things" I think "maintenance nightmare"
[22:34]<jusvygc>Theory: All of the new stuff is going to be an insane productivity enhancement. LINQ, for example, is going to save millions of man hours worldwide because it's so easy to get thigns done
[22:34]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>my PW Form doesent show it just exits immediately
[22:34]<jusvygc>Theory: Have you learned LINQ?
[22:34]<txnjzd>I've not studied it in detail
[22:34]<txnjzd>I've looked at it though
[22:34]<jusvygc>http://msdn.microsoft.com/data/ref/linq/
[22:35]<txnjzd>I can see the cases where it will be useful
[22:35]<jusvygc>Download the technology preview and check it out
[22:35]<txnjzd>JustinC: yes, I've read that stuff
[22:35]<vufvuzn>"Perfection, then, is finally achieved, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. "
[22:35]<jusvygc>Get the tech preview :) You can actually use it with VS... compile it and stuff
[22:35]<txnjzd>JustinC: does it run on linux? :-)
[22:35]<jusvygc>Theory: Poeple use .NET on Linux? :P
[22:35]<snfxnzynf>whats_in_a_name, well, you should set mainDlg.IsMdiContainer = true; in tthe Program instance constructor, but I'm not sure if that will fix it
[22:35]<jusvygc>Wait, what is Linux again?
[22:35]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>vulture who said that? Ben Franklin wasnt it?
[22:35]<dbq>when will LINQ be implmented on goMono and stuff ?
[22:35]<jusvygc>DB2: Not for a long time, probably.
[22:36]<jusvygc>All the more reason to use our wonderful Microsoft compiler :)
[22:36]<dbq>fuck microsoft
[22:36]<vufvuzn>coming up with the minimal language features necessary to make all else possible is the key, not tacking on this & that on every release
[22:36]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>program instance constructor
[22:36]<dbq>(sorry for tha lang)
[22:36]<vufvuzn>whats_in_a_name: Antoine de Saint-Exupery, it seems
[22:36]<jusvygc>DB2: That's not very nice. A good number of people in this channel work for Microsoft.
[22:36]<dbq>JustinC: so ?
[22:36]<snfxnzynf>whats_in_a_name, and also, are you sure connect_Click is getting called when the event it's wired to is raised?
[22:36]<jusvygc>DB2: If you have problems iwth MSFT, then please explain them. I find most people don't have a legitimate reason to dislike Microsoft.
[22:36]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>how come Seph, its a static variable...
[22:36]<dbq>why no make a linux compiler ?
[22:36]<dbq>or open up the internals, so it could easily be done ?
[22:36]<jusvygc>DB2: Why does Microsoft have an incentive to make a Linux compiler?
[22:36]<vufvuzn>JustinC: your mocking of Linux doesn't help either..
[22:36]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>it shouldnt matter when i set its propetry should it.. and yes, im debugging and i know that event fires
[22:36]<dbq>JustinC: for the greater good
[22:36]<jusvygc>Microsoft is a *business* and exists to make money, not to ... do whatever :P
[22:37]<jusvygc>vulture: when did I mock linux?
[22:37]<jusvygc>vulture: I was mocking myself, pretending I was so isolated as not to know what Linux is
[22:37]<dbq>JustinC: there are legitmate reasons, but i have no intrest to go into them now
[22:37]<txnjzd>right, time to go back to PHP :-)
[22:37]<vufvuzn>("What is Linux?" and other comments about using MS tools when it was pretty obvious he had an interest in using something else for philosophical or practical reasons)
[22:37]<txnjzd>(do not interpret the smiley to mean I enjoy this)
[22:37]<jusvygc>DB2: I think it's unreasonable to expect some group of people to have to do something for the greater good. This is a free country. You shouldn't be mad at MSFT that the ydon't release software for $YOUR_OS
[22:38]<jusvygc>If they don't WANT to do something for the greater good, you should respect that.
[22:38]<snfxnzynf>I think the folks at Mono need to create a new branch of their codebase and rewrite most of it for .NET 3.0, because right now their code base is too crusty, and it's slowing them down
[22:38]<jusvygc>They release the .NET and C# language specs for standardization, and that's for the greater good :p
[22:38]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>Seph, oh wait a min.. lemme guess. Application.Run(myForm) makes a new instance of myForm?
[22:38]<dbq>JustinC: it's diffrent when you are a monopole, and you use your money and influcence to block competition
[22:38]<txnjzd>or the greater PR, anyway :-)
[22:38]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>that must be the problem
[22:38]<snfxnzynf>whats_in_a_name, no, it doesn't
[22:38]<wxrvs_yg_r_grdn>no?
[22:38]<jusvygc>DB2: Bundling a browser with their OS is blocking competition?
[22:38]<vufvuzn>DB2: monopoly, and so far it seems they haven't done much of that when it comes to C#
[22:38]<dbq>(for example, SGI, netscape, sun, apple, and million of other innovative company which dont have the market share to compete with microsoft tactics)
[22:39]<jusvygc>MS did it back in the day and got in trouble. And you know what? No one in this world makes an OS that doesn't come with a web browser nowadays..
[22:39]<dbq>JustinC: no.. making their own proirity HTML Code instead of using the WWW one is
[22:39]<jusvygc>DB2: They made their own proprietary HTML cod because the web stuff wasn't good enough
[22:39]<jusvygc>DB2: Do you know where AJAX came from?
[22:39]<dbq>JustinC: rofl..
[22:39]<dbq>yes i know
[22:39]<vufvuzn>"embrace & extend" is a problem/issue that Microsoft seems to have taken to heart a little too often, that I'll agree with
[22:39]<jusvygc>Microsoft's XmlHttpRequest object
[22:39]<dbq>and not good enough ? please give me a break, CSS 3 compaerd to IE crap?
[22:39]<txnjzd>*cough*kerberos*cough*
[22:39]<jusvygc>It started entirely as a proprietary MSFT technology
[22:39]<zyjvnz>vulture eh, it some times works
[22:39]<snfxnzynf>DB2: Mac OS X bundles Safari with their OS... most Linux distributions bundle FireFox or Mozilla with their stuff... how is that different?
[22:40]<dbq>they killed SGI with DirectX
[22:40]<jusvygc>Firefox has its own proprietary HTML stuff too
[22:40]<dbq>ITS NOT ABOUT THE BUNDLE GOD DAMN
[22:40]<dbq>ITS ABOUT THE SPEC
[22:40]<vufvuzn>rioter: Works in the sense of destroying portability, or in some other sense?
[22:40]<zyjvnz>DB2 um? i suggest you check the facts with that one
[22:40]<jusvygc>DB2: If people stopped using OGL, maybe there's a reason for that
[22:40]<dbq>like c#, like their www, like their directx, like everything they do
[22:40]<dbq>like their office .doc files
[22:40]<jusvygc>DirectX happens to be a really kickass graphics platform
[22:40]<snfxnzynf>yeah
[22:40]<jusvygc>maybe that's why it killed the competition
[22:40]<dbq>JustinC: yeah, they influcence mcirosoft has on the market
[22:40]<vufvuzn>JustinC: Did people stop using OGL?
[22:40]<dbq>they did the dirties trick on SGI
[22:40]<zyjvnz>vulture well, when they get a formula right and the standards extend
[22:40]<dbq>telling them they will support OPENGL
[22:40]<dbq>and then backed at the last moment
[22:40]<snfxnzynf>DirectX <= 3.0 sucks, but DirectX 8.0+ is real ownage
[22:40]<jusvygc>vulture: Eh, I think it's mostly dead as a game platform... I guess it's still used for science stuff :P
[22:40]<vufvuzn>rioter: right - it can be constructive
[22:41]<zyjvnz>btw hi vulture :)
[22:41]<txnjzd>anyway, moving back to C#....

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