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[07:55]<nnzjpfrr>*shakes head*
[07:55]<2j2>i work on linux, unix, windows, they all have a purpose.
[07:55]<nnzjpfrr>someone needs to grow up...
[07:55]<jusvygc>I should compile a list of all the fake reasons people hate MSFT for.
[07:55]<2j2>even mac, has a purpose
[07:55]<jusvygc>The best is "convicted monopolist". For bundling a web browser with their OS :P
[07:55]<jusvygc>bob: I agree with you. I don't think there needs to be mental competition of that sort. I like Windows AND I like Linux. Sheesh.
[07:55]<2j2>only thing Microsoft has that i don't like is Internet Explorer
[07:55]<2j2>thats it
[07:55]<jusvygc>The only OS I don't like is Mac :P
[07:56]<2j2>yeah i dont care for it either
[07:56]<jdvgdjgcgd>gasp
[07:56]<jusvygc>Yeah, I don't like IE either. Firefox man!
[07:56]<2j2>but thats my opinion
[07:56]<jdvgdjgcgd>whats wrong with osx
[07:56]<2j2>osx is an ok os and it has a purpose
[07:56]<jusvygc>I don't like the philosophy behind OS X.
[07:56]<2j2>people use it for graphics development and it kicks ass
[07:56]<jusvygc>It cares too much about looking pretty :P
[07:56]<2j2>but it just aint for me
[07:56]<frsdgmd[frlld]>JustinC: right, but in C++, for example, an "int" would be whatever the size of the register is. I'm wondering why C# can't treat it this way too.
[07:56]<2j2>because C# is a high-level language
[07:56]<2j2>higher than C++ :)
[07:56]<nnzjpfrr>only thing microsoft has that I hate is the monopoly on game related operating systems...
[07:56]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: Partly because of what you said earlier, that .NET is a virtual machine
[07:57]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: You want to write .NET applications that run the same everywhere
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>i cant believe the crocodile hunter is dead
[07:57]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: If "int" changed size, then .NET programs wouldn't run the same on two differnet computers
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>who knew a sting ray could impale you like that
[07:57]<2j2>Jivemonkey: seriously?
[07:57]<2j2>is that a joke
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>no
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>its real man
[07:57]<2j2>link pelease
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>its on cnn, slashdot, etc
[07:57]<2j2>please*
[07:57]<2j2>ok
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>google news it man
[07:57]<jusvygc>I'll believe when I see it on normal news
[07:57]<nnzjpfrr>or desktop related for that matter...
[07:57]<frsdgmd[frlld]>JustinC: Right, but then I remembered that .NET does JIT compiling. Can't the JIT compiling just use the register size?
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>normal news
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>haha
[07:57]<jdvgdjgcgd>oxymoron
[07:57]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: It could, but what if you were doing bit shift operations for example?
[07:57]<2j2>haha
[07:58]<jdvgdjgcgd>cnn is pretty mainstream media bro
[07:58]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: If you were going to do a rotate right or something like that, you'd get different results
[07:58]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: (I don't know if .NET has that kind of operation but you get the picture)
[07:58]<jdvgdjgcgd>and they're the ones who brought us the imfamous airforce document
[07:58]<jusvygc>OK, example
[07:58]<jusvygc>.NET has NOT for sure
[07:58]<jusvygc>What's not-zero?
[07:58]<jusvygc>11111.....111
[07:58]<jusvygc>On a 64 bit machine, that's a different value than a 32-bit machine
[07:58]<jdvgdjgcgd>yuh
[07:59]<jusvygc>Thus, if "int" took the register size, .NET programs would behave differently on different machines.
[07:59]<jusvygc>That is undesirable
[07:59]<jdvgdjgcgd>explain why its a different value
[07:59]<frsdgmd[frlld]>JustinC: ah, right, I can see how that would be a problem. So, basically the goal is to make sure that .NET programs behave *exactly* the same everywhere?
[07:59]<jdvgdjgcgd>this is controlled in the clr
[07:59]<jdvgdjgcgd>this is why you have to target a 64 bit compiler
[07:59]<jdvgdjgcgd>or a 32 bit one
[07:59]<jdvgdjgcgd>are there two clr's?
[08:00]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: Yep
[08:00]<jusvygc>lasindi[lappy]: Even the endian-ness needs to be the same
[08:01]<jusvygc>So I guess .NET would run pretty slowly on wrong-endian-ness systems... and I suppose Java does too
[08:01]<jusvygc>Well, I guess the .NET could detect when the semantics are noticable from the outside
[08:02]<2j2>Jivemonkey: you upset my night motherfucker
[08:02]<2j2>i liked steve irwin :(
[08:02]<jdvgdjgcgd>sorry bro
[08:02]<2j2>lol
[08:02]<2j2>i cant believe that
[08:02]<2j2>thats insane
[08:02]<jdvgdjgcgd>its nuts that he's dead
[08:02]<frsdgmd[frlld]>JustinC: so basically, you probably don't get much of a performance boost if you run a .NET program on a 64-bit machine over a 32-bit machine, right?
[08:02]<jdvgdjgcgd>yuh
[08:02]<2j2>yeah it is
[08:02]<jdvgdjgcgd>and what a way to go
[08:02]<2j2>lasindi[lappy]: incorrect
[08:02]<jdvgdjgcgd>run through by a freakin sting ray
[08:02]<2j2>depends what type of application you build
[08:02]<2j2>;)
[08:03]<jusvygc>bob, lasindi[lappy] why would you get a performance boost normally?
[08:03]<jusvygc>most applications don't use anywhere near integers of the size of 64 bits
[08:03]<2j2>heh
[08:03]<2j2>let me tell you this
[08:03]<jusvygc>it's not like your IRC client or AIM or Word would get anything of a difference, would it?
[08:03]<2j2>64-bit optimization does not include JUST changing all Int32 --> Int64
[08:03]<2j2>hah
[08:03]<2j2>not simple stuff like that, no, but it can improve a lot of things
[08:03]<jusvygc>Well I know the processors are more advanced... but that's not really anytrhing to do with the 64-bit ness
[08:03]<2j2>such as 1) writing to files 2) reading files 3) searching files 4) etc etc etc
[08:04]<2j2>multi-threading...
[08:04]<jusvygc>bob: It should only improve things if you're getting near the 2GB or 4GB extended limit
[08:04]<2j2>but 64-bit, nah
[08:04]<jusvygc>why would it change multithreading?
[08:04]<frsdgmd[frlld]>JustinC: Yeah, that's absolutely true. I'm just talking about programs that might use it, like maybe scientific modeling programs or something.
[08:04]<jdvgdjgcgd>you can run two 32 bit processes
[08:04]<jdvgdjgcgd>simultaneously

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