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[14:44]<2ggaz_>yeha wine wasnt emerge with the alsa use flag, thats why ive now added alsa to global sue flags, and some else said is good idea to have esd and arts too
[14:44]<2ggaz_>cahoot: nope not a laptop
[14:44]<rfprrruyr>benjr_: remove arts, not a good idea
[14:44]<rfprrruyr>benjr_: just a waste of space, run esd all the time
[14:44]<rrxjjv>benjr_: probably won't do much harm - but in theory you shouldn't need either
[14:45]<rfprrruyr>that said, esd isn't much better than arts
[14:45]<rrxjjv>benjr_: the best solution overall though is to get a soundblaster
[14:45]<rfprrruyr>cahoot: agreed. Never had a problem with one. Trying to get onboard sound going however, another story
[14:46]<rrxjjv>benjr_: less pain, definitely more gain
[14:46]<2ggaz_>i was under the impression onboard sound was just sharing a board with the mobo
[14:46]<cycsgg>need some help choosing a laptop. would like a thinkpad, but they're using ATI graphics... any thoughts?
[14:46]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: macbook, you know you want to ;)
[14:47]<2ggaz_>cahoot: whats a seperate sound do that onboard dosnt?
[14:47]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: in all seriousness, there aren't many nvidia laptops out there, and it's not worth spending extra money on. just find one that's got a 9200 in it and you can use DRi
[14:47]<2ggaz_>if its about sound quality, then my ears cnat tell the difference lol
[14:47]<rfprrruyr>benjr_: it's not that, it's just that usually onboard sound is crap
[14:47]<rrxjjv>benjr_: soundlasters offer hw mixing - all your output needs solved
[14:47]<rfprrruyr>benjr_: and crucially, badly supported
[14:48]<cpjgnpysx>kiksen: Good call. Avoid ATI like the plague. Intel works if you like slow, nvidia for fast.
[14:48]<rfprrruyr>Clonefish: a 9200 or below is fine
[14:48]<rrxjjv>benjr_: and -by tradition SB cards (using snd-emu10k1) are the ones best supported by alsa
[14:48]<kzzvzrys>42 packages to compile
[14:48]<2ggaz_>cahoot: is onboard sound not just a like soundblaster put on a mobo board?
[14:49]<rfprrruyr>Kartagis: for system?
[14:49]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: but the T series is X300/X1300/FireGL only... (or intel with bad resolution)
[14:49]<rfprrruyr>benjr_: it's usually intel sound
[14:49]<kzzvzrys>ElPenguin yes
[14:49]<cpjgnpysx>ElPenguin: Aren't they equivalent to a TNT2 or so? :)
[14:49]<rrxjjv>benjr_: most doesn't offer hw mixing - i e sound from > 1 source at a time
[14:49]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: the thinkpads are nice, but they're not the ultimate... personally i'd go macbook :)
[14:49]<2ggaz_>ElPenguin: i could have sound fomr more then 1 source at a time i windows
[14:50]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: the intel one has ATI too :/
[14:50]<rfprrruyr>Clonefish: they're not bad actually. You can play most games on them, and they're more than good enough for compositing
[14:50]<rrxjjv>benjr_: that's via sw mixing
[14:50]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: but it's an x1600 or x800, they'r supported by Dri
[14:50]<2ggaz_>ElPenguin: im not sure what mine it but its ac97 something
[14:50]<rrxjjv>benjr_: like dmix, esd or arts
[14:50]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: nice... thanks
[14:50]<rfprrruyr>benjr_: = crap. if it doesn't have SB! pinned to it, you'll struggle with it
[14:51]<cpjgnpysx>kiksen: What other criteria are you looking at?
[14:51]<2ggaz_>cahoot: dmix is a sw mixer? thats comes with alsa right?
[14:51]<rrxjjv>benjr_: right
[14:51]<rrxjjv>benjr_: and enabled by default in modern alsa versions
[14:52]<rrxjjv>benjr_: alsa 1.0.10 and later IIRC
[14:52]<2ggaz_>cahoot: well i have alsa, therefore i should have dmix, but why cna i not get sound from more then 1 source
[14:52]<cpjgnpysx>kiksen: need wireless? Intel stuff is well supported.
[14:52]<cycsgg>Clonefish: large disk, 15" screen, dual-core, wireless ... (company dislikes DELL so that's no an option)
[14:52]<rrxjjv>benjr_: some apps use oss-emulation and which is one only
[14:53]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: actually, i can't seem to find their work on the x1600, odd... give me a min
[14:53]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: k... have heard of a brightness problem with the macbooks too...
[14:53]<cpjgnpysx>kiksen: why dual?
[14:54]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: the new reflective screens?
[14:54]<2ggaz_>cahoot: some if somehting dosnt support alsa, any chacne is might support esd or arts?
[14:54]<rrxjjv>benjr_: a simple test is to run 2 or more instances of aplay /usr/share/sounds/*wav - to test if dmix is working
[14:54]<cycsgg>Clonefish: i'm not paying the bill :)
[14:54]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: Dunno actually.
[14:55]<rrxjjv>benjr_: alsa offers oss-emulation - which those apps can access -
[14:55]<kzzvzrys>later all
[14:56]<2ggaz_>cahoot: im just thinking if the app dosnt support alsa if i could use arts or esd instead, is is a mw mixer my only option
[14:56]<2ggaz_>hw mixer*
[14:56]<cpjgnpysx>kiksen: genuine dual, or that emulated business?
[14:57]<cpjgnpysx>Centrino Duo will land you with a 3945 wireless, which is new, and therefore apparently imperfect
[14:58]<rrxjjv>benjr_: as I understand it esd/arts might offer what you want for non-alsa-aware apps - but I'm not 100% sure about that
[14:58]<cycsgg>Clonefish: dunno. my first laptop.. running amd64x2 now, so the dual seemed like a good path ...
[14:59]<2ggaz_>cahoot: could this be related at all to the problems ive been having getting sound to play on some video file types?
[14:59]<cycsgg>Clonefish: a definite requirement will be good linux functionality :)
[14:59]<lyag>Maybe a stupid question.. Several programs use certificates: Apache, vsftpd, and so on. I'd like to make my self signed cert, but do i need a seperate cert for every program?
[14:59]<rrxjjv>benjr_: probably
[14:59]<cpjgnpysx>kiksen: So, you're not paying, and you want linux...... definitely write off ATI, now.
[15:00]<cpjgnpysx>I can't comment on CPU, but a nvidia chip is the way to go.
[15:00]<cycsgg>Clonefish: np, but then what...
[15:00]<cycsgg>Clonefish: i suggested a dell, but internal IT hates them.
[15:01]<cpjgnpysx>Dell is just a badge (mostly)
[15:01]<rfprrruyr>don't go dell
[15:01]<rfprrruyr>they're crap
[15:01]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: so they say.
[15:01]<rfprrruyr>get a nice athlon64 mobile
[15:01]<2ggaz_>cahoot: tried that aplay thing, heard both sounds at once so dmix must be working
[15:01]<rfprrruyr>if you're not paying, an alienware ;)
[15:01]<cycsgg>ElPenguin: HP?
[15:02]<fycnwxjr>kiksen: avadirect.com for custom asus laptops
[15:02]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: i've had god knows how many hp printers, they all break easy
[15:02]<cpjgnpysx>alienware. rediculously expensive, but why not? :)
[15:02]<fycnwxjr>kiksen: buy with nvidia nforce chipset/ amdcpu and nvidia graphics card
[15:02]<fycnwxjr>Clonefish: dell owns alienware now :P
[15:02]<cycsgg>likewhoa: will take a look :)
[15:02]<rfprrruyr>Clonefish: it's treating oneself
[15:02]<rfprrruyr>likewhoa: yes, but they're leaving them alone
[15:03]<rrxjjv>benjr_: right
[15:03]<fycnwxjr>kiksen: if you going name brand, buy sony -> toshiba -> hp
[15:03]<fycnwxjr>ElPenguin: that's what you think :D
[15:03]<fycnwxjr>ElPenguin: you know they gonna stuff them with cheap OEM hardware
[15:03]<rfprrruyr>likewhoa: they're all awful
[15:03]<cycsgg>like: I'll take a look at sony, toshiba and alienware. Thanks all
[15:03]<cpjgnpysx>Alienware is an eternal punchline here
[15:03]<rfprrruyr>likewhoa: yes, do get them before they do ;)
[15:04]<rfprrruyr>kiksen: sony have crap laptops
[15:04]<fycnwxjr>ElPenguin: i get my laptops from avadirect.com
[15:04]<2ggaz_>cahoot: instead of doing an emerge world, is there anyway to re-ermeg only the packages with dependences on arts, alsa, and esd?
[15:04]<rrxjjv>benjr_: sorry - no idea

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