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[18:00]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: using CGI is hardly ever used in production environment...
[18:00]<dzrcrs>+threat: OOP model, and a handful of features. Zend Engine 2.0; Much Much faster than PHP 4; More flexibility
[18:00]<eyzau>+http://zirzow.dyndns.org/
[18:00]<jve>-Stormchaser: depends on what service you're running
[18:00]<vxznrv>-JVz, doesn't PHP4 support classes?
[18:00]<dzrcrs>+JVz: i believe ecwhost.com are using php4 and 5 modules at once. that's why they have old versions (last checked a month ago)
[18:01]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: What do you mean by "what service"?
[18:01]<jve>-threat: yes, but very minimally
[18:01]<vxznrv>-JVz, oh
[18:01]<dzrcrs>+threat: php 5's OOP model is a lot like Pascal's OOP at the moment, or Java or whatever is good
[18:01]<jve>-Stormchaser: you can use fastcgi with Perl, Python, Ruby, PHP, and any other CGI language
[18:01]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: I'm fully aware of that.
[18:02]<jve>-but now that I think about it, there's mod_perl, mod_python, mod_ruby, and mod_php
[18:02]<zrlsds>+hum I have a question about php6 unicode handle
[18:02]<jve>-well, you get automatic thread safety with CGI
[18:02]<jve>-I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure it's true
[18:02]<dzrcrs>+so wait, which is more secure to use - CGI or mod_****
[18:02]<dzrcrs>+?
[18:02]<zrlsds>+will there have some utf8/iso8859 detection functions ? or do we will need to guess the encoding ?
[18:02]<eyzau>+hmm
[18:03]<zrlsds>+Drakas: cgi is a exec(command)
[18:03]<jve>-Drakas: you could use CGI + fastcgi + mod_suid (I think)
[18:03]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: Well... most mode_* are thread safe as well, unless *specifically* said, you want it off...
[18:03]<svjzdzxzsnz>+bah... mod_*
[18:03]<zrlsds>+mod_* is running the code in the apache process
[18:04]<jve>-I'd assume that production servers tend to use mpm_worker (or mpm_child) due to scalability
[18:04]<dzrcrs>+ok. So if i have a web hosting server, erach user has shell access - how do i make it so their scripts are executed under their usernames? I am not a hostee yet and still am learning GNU tools
[18:04]<vxznrv>-Drakas, so PHP5 has inheritence and stuff ?
[18:04]<zrlsds>+CGI may be realy unsecure if you don't take attention
[18:04]<dzrcrs>+threat: more than that really. You can have interfaces etc.
[18:04]<svjzdzxzsnz>+threat: PHP4 has that, too
[18:04]<jve>-prefork isn't multithreaded
[18:04]<vxznrv>-oh
[18:04]<dzrcrs>+threat: http://php.net/oop5
[18:04]<vxznrv>-ok
[18:04]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: PHP isn't multithreaded environment
[18:04]<zrlsds>+Drakas: apache mod suid if I remember well
[18:04]<vxznrv>-PHP isn't multithreaded?
[18:05]<svjzdzxzsnz>+no
[18:05]<jve>-let's say you're running apache2 with mpm_worker
[18:05]<dzrcrs>+ok good
[18:05]<vxznrv>-so how can you do more then one thing at once then ?
[18:05]<dzrcrs>+threat: php is an interpreting language. it goes line by line
[18:05]<vxznrv>-or optimise for a SMP system?
[18:05]<jve>-how can you use PHP with it other than via CGI mode or carefully checking all extensions for thread safety?
[18:05]<dzrcrs>+threat: php is not multithread; the OS kernel is multithread ;]
[18:05]<zrlsds>+Drakas: apache mod suexec if I remember well (http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/suexec.html)
[18:05]<jve>-suexec, that's what it's called
[18:05]<dzrcrs>+uuh, i hate that mod, rapsys
[18:06]<dzrcrs>+i tried setting it up
[18:06]<vxznrv>-Drakas, yes, but the program needs to spawn threads to take advance of the kernel :)
[18:06]<dzrcrs>+apache is really big application; takes time to compile
[18:06]<zrlsds>+Drakas: then you need to deal with cgi and chuid
[18:06]<jve>-apache doesn't take very long to compile
[18:06]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: mod_php could work, too, but it still depends on how much... PHP and multithreaded servers usually don't go well together.
[18:06]<jve>-if you want long, try the following:
[18:06]<eyzau>+JVz: you just use it, it will work, only if there are thread issues will there be a problem with random crashes
[18:07]<jve>-Firefox, Kopete (roffles), Xorg (holy shit)
[18:07]<dzrcrs>+JVz: maybe work on kde ;]
[18:07]<jve>-KDE and GNOME from scratch takes a few hours
[18:07]<zrlsds>+JVz: not true, kopete is kuick
[18:07]<dzrcrs>+it's godlike shit
[18:07]<zrlsds>+kdenetwork is long ;)
[18:07]<svjzdzxzsnz>+JVz: That's the sole reason, why I hate Gentoo...
[18:07]<jve>-compiling kopete?
[18:07]<zrlsds>+and the killer is the build kdebindings (with all bindings enabled)
[18:07]<svjzdzxzsnz>+no, kopete takes a while
[18:07]<jve>-I know that
[18:08]<dzrcrs>+kopete takes 10 minutes; xorg - 1.30 hours; kde - no idea; gnome - 40 minutes :]
[18:08]<svjzdzxzsnz>+rapsys: Why are you using kdebindings?
[18:08]<curr>+Yes, now while you guys complain--Try building all that on a p3 500 :P
[18:08]<jve>-lesse
[18:08]<eyzau>+kuja: heh
[18:08]<dzrcrs>+kuja: i have p3 450 next to me ;]
[18:08]<dzrcrs>+
ACTION needs a PSU

[18:08]<zrlsds>+Stormchaser: I did a package of kde 3.5.2 because it wasn't avaible on my distro, so I have the idea of time it takes now to build it
[18:08]<jve>-building the entire KDE 3.5 branch from svn using CXXFLAGS='-O3 -march=pentium-m'
[18:09]<curr>+Drakas: And let's pray it doesn't run Gentoo.
[18:09]<jve>-might take a while
[18:09]<dzrcrs>+kuja: my p4 now is running gentoo ;]
[18:09]<curr>+That's because it's a P4.
[18:09]<zrlsds>+JVz: the real problem is that gcc is realy realy slow on building c++
[18:09]<dzrcrs>+kuja: i don't think there's anything bad with having gentoo on that kind of machine :P
[18:09]<jve>-then what do you suggest, rapsys?
[18:09]<curr>+Drakas: There's plenty bad.
[18:09]<svjzdzxzsnz>+rapsys: Oh... Okay... Let me try this: I was a KDE developer for few years, and I know how long it compiles as well...
[18:09]<dzrcrs>+i just wouldn't install biig apps... and i can still change building flags and compile using a different PC
[18:09]<curr>+Drakas: Gentoo is not the system administrator's best friend.
[18:09]<jve>-I already use distcc to get another [faaaaaast] machine working on the compilation
[18:10]<svjzdzxzsnz>+The only difference is, that I have AMD64 300 with 1G or RAM
[18:10]<dzrcrs>+kuja: what's the best admin's friend?
[18:10]<zrlsds>+JVz: pray the god to have a better g++ ;)
[18:10]<curr>+Drakas: Debian.
[18:10]<jve>-Drakas: Debian
[18:10]<jve>-f;b
[18:10]<eyzau>+fbsd
[18:10]<dzrcrs>+i'd take on freebsd; much more stable
[18:10]<zrlsds>+Drakas: you may build the program on an other box
[18:10]<curr>+And secure, probably.
[18:10]<jve>-what does Bjorne (sp) use then?

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